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Thread: Ted Bundy

  1. #101
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    I'd say Bundy was INFJ, not ENFJ or ENTP.

    It's clear for me that he was no P. He was such a planner, extremely careful with the way he executed his crimes. It has nothing to do with the live-in-the-moment, impulsive ways of an ESTP. Also his response to that girl's rejection ("Stay calm, be patient, and plan revenge") sounds quite J to me - in fact it's the stereotype of the wounded INFJ angry with the world. Descriptions of him (quiet, private) put me more in mind of an introvert (though that isn't conclusive at all).

    The Ni-Fe-Se combination is the best to figure people out and manipulate them, as he was doing with those girls. Inferior Se can notice all the small details in a person's appearance and behaviour (this is a mostly inconcious process however) and the dominant Ni will take all of this and put it together so as to form an accurate global picture of the person. Fe permits to understand people's feelings, and really to manipulate these feelings.
    Ni-Fe-Se is also very useful to blend in in society or quickly adapt in a different social context, because it permits to 1) be aware of all the rules and expectations (Fe-Se), 2) form a picture in your head (Ni) and 3) project a fully formed image of yourself to the world (Ni-Fe). Ted Bundy was described by everyone as an extremely charming guy, a former good and intelligent student with a future in politics, whom nobody ever suspected capable of such horrible crimes (lots of people couldn't even believe it at first). This show how good he was at controlling how people viewed him.

    I don't think he was ENFJ, because Ti doesn't sound at all like his inferior function. The easy way he used it to argue his point (or perhaps see the flaws in a plan, or think quickly of an escape, I don't know) would make me put it as his tertiary function, in a supportive role (for example I think he used Ti a lot in that last video we have of him, where he explained how pornography was what pushed him to do what he did). It makes more sense for Se to be his shadow, I think. INFJ, when unstable, have a tendency to fall back to their inferior Se, having ESTP moments. But as their Se is undeveloped (their weak point), it often takes the form of a more or less unhealthy ESTP, sensation seeking in a rather uncontrolled manner. It fits with the nature of Ted's crimes, all about lust. That monster inside him would be his shadow.


  2. #102
    failure to thrive AphroditeGoneAwry's Avatar
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    Yeah, but. This guy was abused likely from birth. Doubtful his aux or even dom functions developed properly, so I don't see how one could accurately rely on tert or inferior function theories to type him.

    When I ESTP shadow, it's spontaneous and not calculated.
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  3. #103
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    Quote Originally Posted by AphroditeGoneAwry View Post
    Yeah, but. This guy was abused likely from birth. Doubtful his aux or even dom functions developed properly, so I don't see how one could accurately rely on tert or inferior function theories to type him.

    When I ESTP shadow, it's spontaneous and not calculated.
    Actually he wasn't abused. He had some family problems - he grew up thinking his grandparents were his parents and his mother his sister, but otherwise had a relatively normal childhood.
    I'm not sure why you assume his functions are so messed up as to be unrecognisable? He must have had a way to perceive the world and make judgement, introverted and extraverted, so functions and an operative functional order. He was able to think properly after all. Everyone who think has a type (= dominant, auxiliary, tertiary and inferior functions), and INFJ fits nicely.

    And he was absolutely not in control of his ESTP-shadow thing either, which was the whole problem really. Some INFJ have a thing for cooking or art or architecture, he had a thing for something else, much darker and disgusting (because of pornography, or so he said).
    You probably shouldn't compare him to yourself when trying to type him anyway, since you're a much more stable and healthy person than he was (I hope ), so you won't find him very relatable. I mean, if he is INFJ, he is one gone bad to an extreme degree. Probably the most horrible INFJ ever (even worst than Hitler).

  4. #104
    failure to thrive AphroditeGoneAwry's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Nuttou View Post
    Actually he wasn't abused. He had some family problems - he grew up thinking his grandparents were his parents and his mother his sister, but otherwise had a relatively normal childhood.
    I'm not sure why you assume his functions are so messed up as to be unrecognisable? He must have had a way to perceive the world and make judgement, introverted and extraverted, so functions and an operative functional order. He was able to think properly after all. Everyone who think has a type (= dominant, auxiliary, tertiary and inferior functions), and INFJ fits nicely.

    And he was absolutely not in control of his ESTP-shadow thing either, which was the whole problem really. Some INFJ have a thing for cooking or art or architecture, he had a thing for something else, much darker and disgusting (because of pornography, or so he said).
    You probably shouldn't compare him to yourself when trying to type him anyway, since you're a much more stable and healthy person than he was (I hope ), so you won't find him very relatable. I mean, if he is INFJ, he is one gone bad to an extreme degree. Probably the most horrible INFJ ever (even worst than Hitler).
    Lol. Of course he was abused. It was rumored his gf was his father and was known to be very verbally and physically abusive. Just read wiki. And they raised him cause his mom was off her rocker somewhere. Til he was 4, then she moved him away. Who knows what kind of relationship they had? He was insanely jealous of his step-father apparently.

    I'm convinced typing doesn't work very well on traumatized individuals because there are too many abnormal variables involved.
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  5. #105
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    Quote Originally Posted by AphroditeGoneAwry View Post
    Lol. Of course he was abused. It was rumored his gf was his father and was known to be very verbally and physically abusive. Just read wiki. And they raised him cause his mom was off her rocker somewhere. Til he was 4, then she moved him away. Who knows what kind of relationship they had? He was insanely jealous of his step-father apparently.
    The identity of his real father is unsure, but I've never read anywhere that it might have been his grandfather. It was probably Lloyd Marshall or Jack Worthington. Most sites just says his mother had an affair with some guy and her parents at first raised him as their own to avoid the shame of a having bastard.
    Wikipedia does say his grandfather may have been a bully, though I remember reading otherwise on some other site. Ted left the house when he was three though, with his mom (who was raised as his older sister, not "off her rocker somewhere"). I've never read anywhere she was a bad mother.

    Anyway, from Wikipedia: "In 1951 Louise met Johnny Culpepper Bundy, a hospital cook, at an adult singles night at Tacoma's First Methodist Church. They married later that year and Johnny Bundy formally adopted Ted. Johnny and Louise conceived four children of their own, and though Johnny Bundy tried to include his stepson in camping trips and other family activities, Ted remained distant from his stepfather. He later complained to his girlfriend that Johnny wasn't his real father, "wasn't very bright", and "didn't make much money.""
    This doesn't sound like such an abusive environment.

    FWIW, Ted Bundy himself insisted before being executed that he was raised in a healthy home and people shouldn't try to blame his family for what he became.

    I'm convinced typing doesn't work very well on traumatized individuals because there are too many abnormal variables involved.
    The greatest trauma in Ted's life seems to have been his first girlfriend rejection. Anyway, Ted was able to function quite normally in society: he seemed to be well liked by about everyone. This means his thinking process wasn't impaired, he was able to use all his functions (Pe - Pi - Ji- Je) in everyday life. So we can attempt to type him using what information we have on his behaviour and abilities.
    You probably can't type a person with mental illness who is unable to think properly and interact with other people at all, but this isn't the case here.

  6. #106
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    Quote Originally Posted by Nuttou View Post
    The identity of his real father is unsure, but I've never read anywhere that it might have been his grandfather. It was probably Lloyd Marshall or Jack Worthington. Most sites just says his mother had an affair with some guy and her parents at first raised him as their own to avoid the shame of a having bastard.
    Wikipedia does say his grandfather may have been a bully, though I remember reading otherwise on some other site. Ted left the house when he was three though, with his mom (who was raised as his older sister, not "off her rocker somewhere"). I've never read anywhere she was a bad mother.

    Anyway, from Wikipedia: "In 1951 Louise met Johnny Culpepper Bundy, a hospital cook, at an adult singles night at Tacoma's First Methodist Church. They married later that year and Johnny Bundy formally adopted Ted. Johnny and Louise conceived four children of their own, and though Johnny Bundy tried to include his stepson in camping trips and other family activities, Ted remained distant from his stepfather. He later complained to his girlfriend that Johnny wasn't his real father, "wasn't very bright", and "didn't make much money.""
    This doesn't sound like such an abusive environment.

    FWIW, Ted Bundy himself insisted before being executed that he was raised in a healthy home and people shouldn't try to blame his family for what he became.


    The greatest trauma in Ted's life seems to have been his first girlfriend rejection. Anyway, Ted was able to function quite normally in society: he seemed to be well liked by about everyone. This means his thinking process wasn't impaired, he was able to use all his functions (Pe - Pi - Ji- Je) in everyday life. So we can attempt to type him using what information we have on his behaviour and abilities.
    You probably can't type a person with mental illness who is unable to think properly and interact with other people at all, but this isn't the case here.
    Whatevs. Why are you protecting him from having an incestuous and abusive background?

    Serial killers are made in childhood. Not as adults, spurned or not.
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    The more one loves God, the more it is that having nothing in the world means everything, and the less one loves God, the more it is that having everything in the world means nothing.

    Do not resist an evil person, but to him who strikes you on the one cheek, offer also the other. ~Matthew 5:39

    songofmary.wordpress.com


  7. #107
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    Quote Originally Posted by Nuttou View Post
    The identity of his real father is unsure, but I've never read anywhere that it might have been his grandfather. It was probably Lloyd Marshall or Jack Worthington. Most sites just says his mother had an affair with some guy and her parents at first raised him as their own to avoid the shame of a having bastard.
    Wikipedia does say his grandfather may have been a bully, though I remember reading otherwise on some other site. Ted left the house when he was three though, with his mom (who was raised as his older sister, not "off her rocker somewhere"). I've never read anywhere she was a bad mother.

    Anyway, from Wikipedia: "In 1951 Louise met Johnny Culpepper Bundy, a hospital cook, at an adult singles night at Tacoma's First Methodist Church. They married later that year and Johnny Bundy formally adopted Ted. Johnny and Louise conceived four children of their own, and though Johnny Bundy tried to include his stepson in camping trips and other family activities, Ted remained distant from his stepfather. He later complained to his girlfriend that Johnny wasn't his real father, "wasn't very bright", and "didn't make much money.""
    This doesn't sound like such an abusive environment.

    FWIW, Ted Bundy himself insisted before being executed that he was raised in a healthy home and people shouldn't try to blame his family for what he became.


    The greatest trauma in Ted's life seems to have been his first girlfriend rejection. Anyway, Ted was able to function quite normally in society: he seemed to be well liked by about everyone. This means his thinking process wasn't impaired, he was able to use all his functions (Pe - Pi - Ji- Je) in everyday life. So we can attempt to type him using what information we have on his behaviour and abilities.
    You probably can't type a person with mental illness who is unable to think properly and interact with other people at all, but this isn't the case here.
    No I wrote about Ted Bundy in a 25 page research paper I did on serial killers and psychopathy some weird things happened in his childhood; he probably, as an ExFJ 3, would feel obligated to say he was raised in a healthy home, perhaps for reasons of Fe love/respect for his family, perhaps for unhealthy 3 need to protect his image, but saying such a thing doesn't surprise me at all wit his personality type, whether his motive was benevolent toward his family or just a ruse to continue to pathetically try to paint his own image.

    Here are some common statistical traits of serial killers:

    1. They tend to come from unstable families.
    2. As children, they are typically abandoned by their fathers and raised by domineering mothers.
    3. Their families often have criminal, psychiatric and alcoholic histories.
    4. They often are mistrustful of their parents.
    5. It is common to find that as children, they were abused psychologically, physically and/or sexually
    6. Many spend time in institutions as children and have records of early psychiatric problems.
    7. They have high rates of suicide attempts.

    Many are:
    white male
    aged 18-30
    were violent to animals as kids
    wet the bed often as kids right up until teens
    Serial killers don't have a motive. They pop up out of nowhere then go on a rampage. A nobody who wants attention, albeit highly negative; casts the desired effect. The only reason they're caught is because they make dumb mistakes.
    and here's part of my report that involved Ted Bundy:

    Born to an unknown father, and a young mother named Elizabeth Cowell in the Elizabeth Lund Home for Unwed Mothers in Burlington, VA, Ted Bundy was initially raised by his maternal grandparents in Pennsylvania. Bundy’s grandfather was an abusive man who had strongly racist tendencies. Some of Bundy’s grandfather’s violence included beating and tormenting small animals or pets, and throwing Bundy’s aunt down the stairs one day for oversleeping. Young Ted showed disturbing personality traits at an extremely young age: the same aunt who had been thrown down the stairs awoke one day to a smiling three year old Ted Bundy surrounding her bed with kitchen knives.
    Ted was eventually reunited with his mother, Louise, who married a man who formally adopted Ted, hence his change of last name from Cowell to Bundy. Ted was hostile to his step-father. As an adolescent, Bundy complained of being incapable of understanding social interactions and having no idea how to genuinely connect with his peers. However, he was able to maintain a superficial façade while at school. During this time Bundy was also extremely fascinated by pornography and depictions of gruesome sexual violence, including images of corpses, and would spy voyeuristically on neighborhood women undressing. He was also arrested twice for burglary and theft before he graduated from high school.

  8. #108
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    Quote Originally Posted by AphroditeGoneAwry View Post
    Whatevs. Why are you protecting him from having an incestuous and abusive background?

    Serial killers are made in childhood. Not as adults, spurned or not.
    Generally speaking, serial killers are serial killers because it's in their nature or because of a traumatic background (and such a trauma can probably also happen in adulthood). I happen to think Ted is the first case. Psychopaths exist and they are born that way. I'm absolutely not protecting him from anything, you're the one insisting he was abused without answering my arguments.

    (Note: Being spurned by the woman of your life can absolutely led to murder. It has many time, though I'm not sure this is the case here. It may be part of it.)

  9. #109
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    Quote Originally Posted by Nuttou View Post
    (Note: Being spurned by the woman of your life can absolutely led to murder.)
    Um that would be the understatement of the year in context of Ted Bundy. I cannot fathom you thinking that he did the things that he did (are you aware of the scope of his rape and murder and brutality, he didn't just snatch someone's panties or shoot some people in the dark, he was a fucking animal who collected body parts as trophies, laid traps for women, brutalized them with bedroom furniture, a real madman) because his college gf dumped him.

    It shows a lack of reading about Ted Bundy, and actually a complete lack of psychological understanding of people.

  10. #110
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    Quote Originally Posted by Marmotini View Post
    No I wrote about Ted Bundy in a 25 page research paper I did on serial killers and psychopathy some weird things happened in his childhood; he probably, as an ExFJ 3, would feel obligated to say he was raised in a healthy home, perhaps for reasons of Fe love/respect for his family, perhaps for unhealthy 3 need to protect his image, but saying such a thing doesn't surprise me at all wit his personality type, whether his motive was benevolent toward his family or just a ruse to continue to pathetically try to paint his own image.
    That's possible. I read the part of your report that you quoted, and it says about the same thing as Wikipedia. But as I said, Ted still left his grandfather's house at three, so I'm not sure this would have affected his personality a lot. Is there any evidence that Ted's new home (with his stepfather) was dysfunctional? From the wiki, it sounds like his stepfather tried to make him part of the family.
    And I think the reasons he did all these weird things as a child is because he is a psychopath. Here is a very interesting article on psychopath children. It fits what we know of Ted, so I think we don't need an unhealthy childhood environment to explain his behaviour.

    Anyway, you seem to agree with me that we can type him, since you did so yourself Why ENFJ rather than INFJ? Have you read my first post in this thread? I really think Ni-Fe-Ti-Se fits him really well.

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