Britney Spears vs Lindsay Lohan

[Lightyear]

I was just thinking that Lindsay Lohan and Britney Spears are both (most likely) ESFPs but while Britney has gotten her act together Lindsay Lohan still seems to go down the rabbit hole towards a drug-induced early demise a la Amy Winehouse. What made the difference for Britney, why could she sort herself out while there seems no end in sight for Lohan's troubles?

Also what is it about ESFPs that can make them act out so outrageously and send them so spectacularly down a spiral of destruction? Living in the moment and not thinking about consequences? Relying too much on feelings and outside approval?

 

[Qlip]

Not that I follow it closely, but I never got the impression that Britney was ever self destructive, or even very unhealthy. She just put on weight, had kind of questionable choice in men, and didn't focus too much on her career. I dunno, this just sounds like a normal person. The only thing at risk was her fame.

I'm going to go with Drugs and mental health issues as the answer to this question.

 

[Totenkindly]

Not that I follow it closely, but I never got the impression that Britney was ever self destructive, or even very unhealthy. She just put on weight, had kind of questionable choice in men, and didn't focus too much on her career. I dunno, this just sounds like a normal person. The only thing at risk was her fame.

Really? Did you miss that whole 2-year-period where she wigged out, shaved her head on a whim, smashed a car windshield with her umbrella, ran around town in short skirts without underwear, lost custody of her kids, etc?

I really don't know much about Lohan's type, although Britney I think is ESFP.

 

[Qlip]

Really? Did you miss that whole 2-year-period where she wigged out, shaved her head on a whim, smashed a car windshield with her umbrella, ran around town in short skirts without underwear, lost custody of her kids, etc?

I really don't know much about Lohan's type, although Britney I think is ESFP.

Oh, yeah.. forgot about that.

EDIT: The real lesson here is to never become a Disney child mega star.

 

[chickpea]

i don't know if britney has gotten her act together as much as she's been drugged into submission.

 

[Seymour]

EDIT: The real lesson here is to never become a Disney child mega star.

Mission accomplished.

 

[Totenkindly]

This is why it's better to be INFJ (or whatever Miranda Cosgrove is). The internal structure helps you resist the crazy wild excesses of a success entertainment career as a child.

ESFP could play a factor in this. Basically you're taking an Se approach to life ("dive in, experience it all, isn't life good?"), coupling it with internalized personal values (Fi), and then giving that teenager who has potentially not yet matured with zillions of possibilities due to their financial success. There are no restraints. We've tried to keep boundaries on our own ESFP kid for his own benefit, and he's still very resistant to them and tends to take the path of least resistance + most gratification. ESFPs at a younger age, until they develop a core, seem to need the boundaries imposed from without, yet these kinds of scenarios basically pull out all the stops and have no boundaries whatsoever.

There's also a constant "bath" of sensation and experience going on -- people contacting them, lots of public attention, etc -- it's like an over-stimulation problem, contributing to ADD style behavior where there's no space to get quiet and grounded.

 

[Speed Gavroche]

I was just thinking that Lindsay Lohan and Britney Spears are both (most likely) ESFPs but while Britney has gotten her act together Lindsay Lohan still seems to go down the rabbit hole towards a drug-induced early demise a la Amy Winehouse. What made the difference for Britney, why could she sort herself out while there seems no end in sight for Lohan's troubles?

Also what is it about ESFPs that can make them act out so outrageously and send them so spectacularly down a spiral of destruction? Living in the moment and not thinking about consequences? Relying too much on feelings and outside approval?

Britney Spears, Lindsay Lohan and Amy Winehouse are all Sx/So on the enneagram, that is what makes them ultra-addictive and autodestructive. They don't have the same MBTI type. Britney Spears is an ESFP, Lindsay Lohan an ESFJ (as I explain here http://www.typologycentral.com/forums/showthread.php?t=19373&p=1618087&viewfull=1#post1618087) and Amy Winehouse is an ESTP (as it is shown here http://www.celebritytypes.com/popularculture/index.htm).

Britney S is a 3w2 Sx/So, positive and dazzling, identifies with what she does but fails trying to please evrybody. Still, she is always able to send goals and work until the project is over. Lindsay L and Amy W are both 6w7 Sx/So. Lindsay used to be a phobic 6w7, compliant and consumate girl next door, then, counterphobic ,she is a fiery redhead but has struggles with autorities and auto-sabotage, difficulties to finish projects. Amy Winehouse was a daddy girl who alternated between being fiesty and audacious and flippant, scared and dependant.

But the big common issue between them is their unhealthy Sx/So quality.

 

[Lightyear]

ESFP could play a factor in this. Basically you're taking an Se approach to life ("dive in, experience it all, isn't life good?"), coupling it with internalized personal values (Fi), and then giving that teenager who has potentially not yet matured with zillions of possibilities due to their financial success. There are no restraints.

I guess that's the crux, just like a primary Ni user could get lost in their own mind a primary Se user might get completely lost within the outside world. To me it's just so foreign being that kind of person who needs parental control since I was a kid that was more likely to live in her own head instead of going crazy like an ESFP.

 

[Totenkindly]

Lindsay Lohan an ESFJ

That would be surprising.

I guess that's the crux, just like a primary Ni user could get lost in their own mind a primary Se user might get completely lost within the outside world.

Good way to describe it. The pattern is the same, it is the specific that is different ... and yes, the ESPs can be swallowed by external reality and lose their core sense of self and their ability to separate from the outer world.

To me it's just so foreign being that kind of person who needs parental control since I was a kid that was more likely to live in her own head instead of going crazy like an ESFP.

Gotta tell you, dealing with my son aged me tremendously... lol. I still don't understand how he can live the way he does, especially when it results in so much chaos, or why he has so much trouble accepting any level of boundary on his moment-by-moment choices even when it is obviously in his best interest. "Restraint" is an incomprehensible word.

 

[Speed Gavroche]

That would be surprising.

Why?

 

[chihuahuasrluv]

What made the difference for Britney, why could she sort herself out while there seems no end in sight for Lohan's troubles?

The court intervened more with Britney. I think Britney is slightly better than she was before, but with the court giving her dad conservatorship her chaotic life is more controlled. I find it interesting that court still gives him control after all this time. She keeps fighting the courts to get control back and losing. I have my own personal theories as to why, but I do believe the court system worked in this case and probably saved her life or at least bought her extra years to be happy with her sons and try to get better.

In Britney's case there was at least one parent who would not enable, etc. Basically offering a stable environment to get better, Lindsay doesn't have that. Conservatorship would never work in her case, at least not with her parents. She has an enabling mother and an obviously emotionally unhealthy father. Plus I really feel the courts have let her down. She needs to be away from her enablers and do a good year in prison like Robert Downey Jr. did. I really started seeing improvement with him after that. Plus she needs at least 3-6 months in intensive therapy/rehab. Not to be let out until she legit gets it that she has a serious life ending problem. Jail time is pointless since the jails here are so overcrowded so she never does enough time to truly make a dent.

I really do think it comes down to family and Britney's is just a bit saner. I do agree with the person that it was forced submission. I don't think she has truly dealt with her mental health issues and no one can force someone to deal with that until there ready, I know this from personal experience. I also think Lindsay has deeper mental issues than Britney.

 

[Totenkindly]

.... I also think Lindsay has deeper mental issues than Britney.

In what ways, do you think? (just general assessment)

Lindsay seems more introverted to me than Brit (who is obviously E), but I haven't studied her in detail... just talking vibes.

 

[Speed Gavroche]

In what ways, do you think? (just general assessment)

Lindsay seems more introverted to me than Brit (who is obviously E), but I haven't studied her in detail... just talking vibes.

She's more shy, but not more introverted

 

[chickpea]

Britney Spears, Lindsay Lohan and Amy Winehouse are all Sx/So on the enneagram, that is what makes them ultra-addictive and autodestructive. They don't have the same MBTI type. Britney Spears is an ESFP, Lindsay Lohan an ESFJ (as I explain here http://www.typologycentral.com/forums/showthread.php?t=19373&p=1618087&viewfull=1#post1618087) and Amy Winehouse is an ESTP (as it is shown here http://www.celebritytypes.com/popularculture/index.htm).

Britney S is a 3w2 Sx/So, positive and dazzling, identifies with what she does but fails trying to please evrybody. Still, she is always able to send goals and work until the project is over. Lindsay L and Amy W are both 6w7 Sx/So. Lindsay used to be a phobic 6w7, compliant and consumate girl next door, then, counterphobic ,she is a fiery redhead but has struggles with autorities and auto-sabotage, difficulties to finish projects. Amy Winehouse was a daddy girl who alternated between being fiesty and audacious and flippant, scared and dependant.

But the big common issue between them is their unhealthy Sx/So quality.

amy's an isfp.

 

[Speed Gavroche]

amy's an isfp.

No. Clearly extrovert and was not especially driven by an intenal personal ethic. She had Fe though, but that was pretty infantile. Black boy in white chick body are always STP, trust me, they are not IFP.

 

[chickpea]

No. Clearly extrovert and was not driven by an intenal personal ethic by any means. She had Fe though, but that was pretty infantile. Black boy in white chick body are always STP, trust me, they are not IFP.

sorry, you're wrong. as usual.

 

[Totenkindly]

No. Clearly extrovert and was not especially driven by an intenal personal ethic. She had Fe though, but that was pretty infantile. Black boy in white chick body are always STP, trust me, they are not IFP.

Would that make Michael Jackson an NFJ?

.... anyhoo, back to the comparison between Lindsay and Brit.

 

[Speed Gavroche]

sorry, you're wrong. as usual.

You hav'nt any arguments, as usual.

 

[prplchknz]

keep in mind britney spears is 3-4 years older than Lindsey Lohan to put it in perspective. and 3-4 years ago spears was a complete train wreck