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  1. #91
    Senior Member Cloud of Thunder's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Hive View Post
    I had Yukio Mishima pegged as a INFJ. Definitely a 4, maybe with the 3-wing.
    The only way out is through. The faster you're in, the better.

  2. #92
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    Regarding art itself...

    Certain movements in art (music at least) seem to be associated with Enneatypes. I would draw on the observation that while Romanticism was in vogue, almost all the leading composers were 4s, but in the preceding Classical Period they were 7s and 6s. The Baroque and Modernist movements seem 5w6 and 5w4 ish. Nowadays, the typical contemporary musician is a 7. I am confident that something similar must exist in visual arts, as well.

    These are of course generalisations. But I wonder whether the aesthetics of certain movements appeal more to people of a particular type.

  3. #93
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    Quote Originally Posted by Saoirse View Post
    If she's a 4, I have a hard time seeing sx-dom based on her demeanor in the few interviews I've read/watched. (But I think she's more likely sx-second than sx-last.) In person, she seems to lack the obvious fiery streak that descriptions of Sexual Fours emphasize (Tori Amos and Fiona Apple come to mind as good examples of sx 4s); instead it seems like her inner intensity is kept under the surface more, and is far more about sadness than anger. Also, I've noticed that sx 4 musicians' songs about romantic relationships tend to express anger or even hatred almost as often as they express love and adoration, and I don't see much of that anger in Lana's music (even when she's singing about toxic relationships where the woman is repeatedly hurt). I also think that most 4s highly value passion, romantic love and connection, no matter their stacking.

    When I think of a Sexual Four's reaction to being hurt, I think of something like "Regret" by Fiona Apple - a howling rage:


    But if she's any type other than 4, then sx-dom seems likely.
    After seeing her live I am even more convinced that she's a Sexual 9. Her show is like an intimate group experience, it's highly interactive and mergey, she WANTS the fans to sing with her, she makes intense eye contact, hugs and kisses people and walks down into the audience repeatedly. It put me in mind a little of the Grateful Dead or something, almost bordering on the cult-y but in a very life affirming love vibe way. Her holy idea is clearly love and she gives the intimate feel of a Sexual type, it would serve to explain the feelings that fans get, almost a personal relationship to her, and she gets off on it, she tells her fans she loves them too and she knows they're on her level. But she has that kind of subdued passive 9 quality in her body language, even though she is emitting this intense Sexual energy. I mean Sexual in the truly sexual but also in the sense of psychological merging.

    Also I think the way her performance bores people who are not fans is also pretty indicative of her being a 9. I was close to a 9 who called himself boring, almost like 9s are filled by an impersonal oneness with others, and if you don't happen to merge with them as an individual, they can seem boring on the surface, like a vase waiting to be filled when they are "empty."She is also surprisingly tolerant and welcoming of the intensity and borderline aggression of some of her fans, and 9s do tend to get offer a kind of tolerant or soft place for pushier people. She claimed in more than one interview to be attracted to dominant people and to like a feeling of love that borders on the aggressive.

    I think she's a very evolved 9, though she is not at the highest level like a spiritual leader, she's healthy to mid range. I think she was less healthy or less evolved when she was younger which is why she had such a hard time on stage earlier on, it was that meekness or passivity in her stage presence if you didn't appreciate what she was sending out on another level. You also mentioned the lack of anger in her songs even about bad relationships, and 9s tend to deny anger or implode.

    I don't think the feelings of intimacy and oneness she creates in her music and at her shows would be possible if she weren't a SX dom, it also explains how she manages to polarize people while appearing relatively passive, accepting and forgiving as a 9. She is apparently an obsessive person and enjoys or tolerates or even silently enables obsession with her. Apparently she got a restraining order on one fan, but only because he became violent towards other fans at a show.

    I have seen how people react to me sometimes online as a fan, and trust me I am extremely tame compared to gay sixteen year old boys, the zealots in her fan group actually has caused me to wonder about her own past in a cult, and techniques she may have subconsciously picked up there. I also understand why some people say she is INFJ because of her messianic quality. But she embraces Se she doesn't reject it, I still think ISFP.
    Last edited by Thalassa; 10-23-2014 at 05:22 AM. Reason: More rambling

  4. #94
    Honeyed Water thoughtlost's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Marmotini View Post





    After seeing her live I am even more convinced that she's a Sexual 9. Her show is like an intimate group experience, it's highly interactive and mergey, she WANTS the fans to sing with her, she makes intense eye contact, hugs and kisses people and walks down into the audience repeatedly. It put me in mind a little of the Grateful Dead or something, almost bordering on the cult-y but in a very life affirming love vibe way. Her holy idea is clearly love and she gives the intimate feel of a Sexual type, it would serve to explain the feelings that fans get, almost a personal relationship to her, and she gets off on it, she tells her fans she loves them too and she knows they're on her level. But she has that kind of subdued passive 9 quality in her body language, even though she is emitting this intense Sexual energy. I mean Sexual in the truly sexual but also in the sense of psychological merging.

    Also I think the way her performance bores people who are not fans is also pretty indicative of her being a 9. I was close to a 9 who called himself boring, almost like 9s are filled by an impersonal oneness with others, and if you don't happen to merge with them as an individual, they can seem boring on the surface, like a vase waiting to be filled when they are "empty."She is also surprisingly tolerant and welcoming of the intensity and borderline aggression of some of her fans, and 9s do tend to get offer a kind of tolerant or soft place for pushier people. She claimed in more than one interview to be attracted to dominant people and to like a feeling of love that borders on the aggressive.

    I think she's a very evolved 9, though she is not at the highest level like a spiritual leader, she's healthy to mid range. I think she was less healthy or less evolved when she was younger which is why she had such a hard time on stage earlier on, it was that meekness or passivity in her stage presence if you didn't appreciate what she was sending out on another level. You also mentioned the lack of anger in her songs even about bad relationships, and 9s tend to deny anger or implode.

    I don't think the feelings of intimacy and oneness she creates in her music and at her shows would be possible if she weren't a SX dom, it also explains how she manages to polarize people while appearing relatively passive, accepting and forgiving as a 9. She is apparently an obsessive person and enjoys or tolerates or even silently enables obsession with her. Apparently she got a restraining order on one fan, but only because he became violent towards other fans at a show.

    I have seen how people react to me sometimes online as a fan, and trust me I am extremely tame compared to gay sixteen year old boys, the zealots in her fan group actually has caused me to wonder about her own past in a cult, and techniques she may have subconsciously picked up there. I also understand why some people say she is INFJ because of her messianic quality. But she embraces Se she doesn't reject it, I still think ISFP.
    ^_^

    I think it is interesting that you find her to be a 9. People on PerC were saying that she IS NOT a core 4, but then SK( @Southerned Kross ...please don't be mad at me for summoning you... I want to know your opinion, it is okay if you do not share) said she is really 4.

    I like the idea that she could very much be a 9. It does make sense considering what she sings about. When I first heard of her I thought she was a 3w4 and I thought she would be a stuck up jerk... but then I see videos and she seems sssssooo sweet; I think I want to marry her. I very much relate to her "image". She MIGHT be the only famous person I feel I can relate to, actually.

    ...I would say more... but I am feeling tongue-tied right now.
    You are so arbitrary.

  5. #95
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    Quote Originally Posted by thoughtlost View Post
    ^_^

    I think it is interesting that you find her to be a 9. People on PerC were saying that she IS NOT a core 4, but then SK( @So utherned Kross ...please don't be mad at me for. sum moning you... I want to know your opinion, it is okay if you do not share) said she is really 4.

    I like the idea that she could very much be a 9. It does make sense considering what she sings about. When I first heard of her I thought she was a 3w4 and I thought she would be a stuck up jerk... but then I see videos and she seems sssssooo sweet; I think I want to marry her. I very much relate to her "image". She MIGHT be the only famous person I feel I can relate to, actually.

    ...I would say more... but I am feeling tongue-tied right now.
    She's definitely not a 3. I don't know if you know what she was like before, but look up the Sirens album under her pseudonym May Jailer. Or search YouTube for a live performance of Trash (Miss America) by Lizzy Grant. I get super huffy about Lana because I am a hard core fan, and most people who attempt to type her don't know very much about her at all. 9 integrates at 3. And she became more successful when taking on healthy 3 traits. There's a total amateur on PerC who thinks she's a 2 based solely on the Ride video. You can not type an artist based on one video or radio play. People don't know what they're talking about half the time. It makes a mockery of type theory. I already know that SK thinks she's a 4 and yeah it is probably her heart fix. 4 is the only other realistic type for Elizabeth Grant.

  6. #96
    Senior citizen velveteen's Avatar
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    Kevin Shields – INFP

    Bilinda Butcher – ISFP or INFJ

    Anton Newcombe – INTP

    Brett Anderson – ISFP

    Morrissey – INFJ

    Stephen Pastel – INFP

  7. #97
    metamorphosing Flâneuse's Avatar
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    Nelly Furtado (I'm Like a Bird, Promiscuous) - ENFP 7w6-4w3-(9w8?) sx/so. I see her typed as 4w3 quite a bit, but I don't see it as her core type at all going by the themes of her music and the few interviews I've watched.

  8. #98
    Senior Member RedAmazoneFriendZone's Avatar
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    He is a 4 for sure. I don't know his MBTI type.
    ALL THAT WE SEE OR SEEM TO BE IS BUT A DREAM WITHIN A DREAM

  9. #99
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    I keep seeing people think Marilyn Manson is INFJ. I definitely agree he is on the Ti/Fe axis but I always thought NTP because his application of Fe is intentionally provocative and rebellious, but still serving a greater social message to his art; most recently he admitted to respecting Lana del Rey and being her friend, but finding her insurmountably difficult to work with, that it made him "tired"...to me this sounds like an NTP/SFP clash, even if they had similar interaction styles their opposing functions would make their creative processes conflict, and I can see Fi making a Ti type tired, because Ti makes me tired. It's definitely an argument against her being INFJ because then they'd compliment one another better.

  10. #100
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    Mark Kozelek - ISFP 4w5 sx/sp

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