Famous Libertarians and Objectivists

[Critical Hit]

Noam Chomsky - INTJ.

 

[Lark]

Noam Chomsky - INTJ.

I like it, very clever.

 

[Cimarron]

[MENTION=7280]Lark[/MENTION], English is not his first language, please ease up in that regard, if you could.

Funny how we didn't get to much discussion on MBTI type. (Though we have to define what it is we're discussing first, I know, I know.)

What about the members of the rock band Rush?

 

[Speed Gavroche]

Really? I dont see you laughing, I see the same script being played out as always when your ideology is challenged, and the inability to spell which indicates that you're either too furious to type or english isnt your first language.

What "classic moment when the socialist want (sic) to impose an authority to "protect" us from another authority"? That's a very confused statement there, what socialists want to impose an authority? Can you cite any or is that just something you've heard repeated in libertarian circles and decided to repeat yourself?

The socialists I know, like GDH Cole, Eric Fromm or George Orwell, advocated self-government but were not confused anti-authoritarians who rejected wholesale the rule of law or properly constituted authorities, what socialists are you talking about?

What is "feodalism"? Did you mean feudalism? Just describe for me a moment what feudalism is would you, I've a very strong suspiscion that you're using that word without any knowledge at all of the historical epoch refered to as feudalist, or how it is supposed to resemble socialism for that matter, as a simple synomyn for "a very bad thing".

There's a very good chance that depending on how you answer I'm just going to begin ignoring you because I'm becoming less and less convinced that you know what you're talking about when you enter political threads and become argumentative to cover up for it.

Feudalism is " I force you to obey me and then I'll protect you", and it's exactly what socialists do, especially toward the concept of welfare state. End of the story.

 

[Speed Gavroche]

What about the members of the rock band Rush?

Indeed, they are libertarians.

 

[Ghostwheel]

Feudalism is " I force you to obey me and then I'll protect you", and it's exactly what socialists do, especially toward the concept of welfare state.

The basis for socialism is the same as the basis upon which the United States government was founded: a social contract.

If you don't know about this, it's because it's no longer referred to by our political leaders. Corporate and billionaire funded media have flooded our culture with exactly those talking points that serve their interests most particularly, and these are all many people know today.

End of the story.

"There are more things in heaven and earth...." etcetera, etcetera.

Noam Chomsky - INTJ.

He seems more INTP-ish to me. Very much so, actually.

 

[Speed Gavroche]

The basis for socialism is the same as the basis upon which the United States government was founded: a social contract.

Social Contract is a fiction, didn't you know that? Contracts can only be made by individuals and based on consentment, as libertarians say, but not collective or based on coercion as for socialism.

 

[Elfboy]

Charlton Heston: ISTJ 8w9 So/Sx
Sean Connery: ENTJ 8w9 Sx/Sp
Ron Paul: INFP 6w5 Sp/So
Donald Trump: ISFP 8w7 Sp/Sx
Kevin Costner: ISFP 9w8 Sx/Sp
50 Cent: INTJ 6w5 Sx/Sp
Robert T. Kiyosaki: ESTP 8w7 Sp/So
Hugh Hefner: ENFP 7w8 Sx/Sp
Quentin Tarantino: ENTJ 7w8 So/Sx

Fictional:
Lelouch vi Britannia: INTJ 1w9 Sx/Sp
Rhett Butler: ENTJ 8w7 Sx/Sp
Scarlett O'Hara: ESTP 8w7 Sx/Sp
James Bond: ESTP 7w8 Sx/Sp
V from V for Vendetta: INTJ 4w5 Sx/Sp

 

[Speed Gavroche]

Sean Connery: ENFJ 8w9 Sx/Sp (I had no clue that he was libertarian BTW)
Ron Paul: INFJ 1w2 Sp/So
Donald Trump: ESTP 8w7 Sp/So (He is a conservative)
Kevin Costner: ISFP 9w8 Sx/Sp (Maybe ISTP)
50 Cent: ISFJ 6w5 Sx/Sp
Hugh Hefner: ESTP 7w8 Sp/Sx
Quentin Tarantino: ENTJ 7w8 So/Sx

Scarlett O'Hara: ESTP 3w4 Sx/So
V from V for Vendetta: INTP 5w4 So/Sx

Some others:

Batman INTJ 8w7 Sp/Sx

Steve Ditko INTJ

Orson from Desperate housewives ENFJ

Hank Moody ENTP

Serge Gainsbourg ENTP 7w6 Sx/Sp

Largo Winch ENFJ 6w5 So/Sx

Thorgal ENFJ 8w9 Sx/Sp

Jan Van Hamme INTJ

 

[Elfboy]

- Ron Paul is the epitome of Fi. undoubtedly INFP
- I don't know for sure what type 50 Cent is, but definitely not ISFJ
- I'm still claiming Hugh Hefner as an ENFP

 

[Komakino]

- I don't know for sure what type 50 Cent is, but definitely not ISFJ

He's not his musical persona.

 

[Kierva]

Glenn Beck.

Who would've known.

 

[Lark]

Feudalism is " I force you to obey me and then I'll protect you", and it's exactly what socialists do, especially toward the concept of welfare state. End of the story.

You need to do a bit more reading.

 

[Ghostwheel]

Social Contract is a fiction, didn't you know that? Contracts can only be made by individuals and based on consentment, as libertarians say, but not collective or based on coercion as for socialism.

Corporations aren't individuals, and they enter into contracts all the time.

You need to do a bit more reading.

Yes, he does, I quite agree.

Speed, you sound like a young man who's just discovered Ayn Rand. I understand it's very tempting to think you've just found the one right answer to the age-old problem of how to create a just society, but trust me, there's so much more.

Try putting aside your preconceptions and reading some Chomsky. A few good books on the interrelationship of ecology and capitalism might also broaden your perspective. We have an economic system predicated on continual growth and a planet of limited physical resources. Might there be some essential disconnect between these two things?

 

[Kephalos]

I have to confess that the list of prominent libertarians that has emerged so far is not very appealing. This is a list I myself find more appealing, although they reveal my preferences, almost all of them free market type intellectuals:

-- F.A. von Hayek
-- Ludwig von Mises
-- Robert Lucas (?)
-- Thomas Sowell
-- Murray Rothbard
-- Milton Friedman
-- Bryan Caplan
-- Steve Horwitz
-- Henry Hazlitt
-- Peter Boettke
-- Anthony de Jasay
-- Frank Knight

 

[Speed Gavroche]

You need to do a bit more reading.

As expected: no arguments.

 

[Speed Gavroche]

Corporations aren't individuals, and they enter into contracts all the time.

Bullshit. Corporations are led by individuals and theses indiviudals, as well as thoses who colaborate with them, are individuals. You only have to respect contract that you have signed up personally, and social contract don't exist.

Speed, you sound like a young man who's just discovered Ayn Rand.

I discovered Ayn Rand several years ago, and I'm not objectivist.

I understand it's very tempting to think you've just found the one right answer to the age-old problem of how to create a just society, but trust me, there's so much more.

Look who's talking: a socialist who, as every socialist, dont understand anything about economy. Be educated and then we could discuss about something.

Try putting aside your preconceptions and reading some Chomsky. A few good books on the interrelationship of ecology and capitalism might also broaden your perspective. We have an economic system predicated on continual growth and a planet of limited physical resources. Might there be some essential disconnect between these two things?

No. The principle of economy is to manage with the reality or rarety. And socialism try to deny that reality, the motto of a socialist system is "the ressourced are unlimited, only thing we have to do is to share, enslave people and steal to the rich".

 

[Ghostwheel]

Bullshit. Corporations are led by individuals and theses indiviudals, as well as thoses who colaborate with them, are individuals. You only have to respect contract that you have signed up personally, and social contract don't exist.

Again, corporations are NOT individuals, and yet, corporations enter into contracts for which the agents of the contracting corporation (agents = individuals) are not personally liable.

The social contract is a theoretical construct designed to explore and explain the appropriate relationship between individuals and their governments. Nobody insists that it is a physical thing. For that matter, "rights" and "freedom" don't really exist either. They're just theoretical constructs—ideas we use to talk about how we think people should or shouldn't be entitled to live. You're going to throw the baby out with the bathwater if you use that approach.

No. The principle of economy is to manage with the reality or rarety. And socialism try to deny that reality, the motto of a socialist system is "the ressourced are unlimited, only thing we have to do is to share, enslave people and steal to the rich".

If socialists believed resources were unlimited, they wouldn't believe in the necessity for joint ownership of natural resources, for example. Everybody could have their own oil well.

Have you considered that the notion of "ownership," like that of the social contract, is merely a theoretical construct? Different cultures—like the Native Americans, for example—have had entirely different concepts of what it means to "own" something.

The modern Lockean notion seems common sensical at a modest level, like how a man could own food from the garden he, himself planted. But the further from that you go, to huge inherited wealth and massive financial empires, the Lockean notion that someone owns all that by putting their work into it reads as more and more absurd.

 

[Lark]

Corporations aren't individuals, and they enter into contracts all the time.



Yes, he does, I quite agree.

Speed, you sound like a young man who's just discovered Ayn Rand. I understand it's very tempting to think you've just found the one right answer to the age-old problem of how to create a just society, but trust me, there's so much more.

Try putting aside your preconceptions and reading some Chomsky. A few good books on the interrelationship of ecology and capitalism might also broaden your perspective. We have an economic system predicated on continual growth and a planet of limited physical resources. Might there be some essential disconnect between these two things?

I dont think Chomsky is that good an author, not even as a counter point to Rand. Eric Fromm or GDH Cole maybe but they are unabashed socialists so unlikely to make any reading short list.

 

[Orangey]

V from V for Vendetta: INTJ 4w5 Sx/Sp

I object to this. V was an anarchist, and Alan Moore is an anarchist of the socialist variety, so I don't think we have any reason to conclude that V is some Randroid "libertarian."