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  1. #91
    Blah Orangey's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Speed Gavroche View Post
    And Joss Whedon is libertarian because his whole fictional work, especially Firefly/Serenety is completely libertarian.
    I'm sorry, that's the dumbest thing I've heard in this thread. The guy basically campaigns for Kerry, supports Obama, and is outspoken for gay and women's rights and you think he's libertarian because Firefly can be interpreted as having libertarian themes?
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  2. #92
    Certified Sausage Smoker Elfboy's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Orangey View Post
    I'm sorry, that's the dumbest thing I've heard in this thread. The guy basically campaigns for Kerry, supports Obama, and is outspoken for gay and women's rights and you think he's libertarian because Firefly can be interpreted as having libertarian themes?
    minus the supporting Obama and Kerry (definitely not very libertarian lol) supporting gay and women's rights seems pretty libertarian to me
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  3. #93
    Whisky Old & Women Young Speed Gavroche's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Elfboy View Post
    minus the supporting Obama and Kerry (definitely not very libertarian lol) supporting gay and women's rights seems pretty libertarian to me
    He was more anti-bush than pro-kerry or pro-obama really. And his idea are very libertarian, in Serenity, for example, the heroes are authentic libertarians (same for scooby gang and Angel's team) and the enemy is not a capitalist system, but a welfare state. Most part of libertarians support gay rights, as far as i know.


    Oh, and Geoge L is very chart-the-course in his style, so I think he's INTJ.
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  4. #94
    Certified Sausage Smoker Elfboy's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Speed Gavroche View Post
    He was more anti-bush than pro-kerry or pro-obama really. And his idea are very libertarian, in Serenity, for example, the heroes are authentic libertarians (same for scooby gang and Angel's team) and the enemy is not a capitalist system, but a welfare state. Most part of libertarians support gay rights, as far as i know.


    Oh, and Geoge L is very chart-the-course in his style, so I think he's INTJ.
    I just see too much Fi/Ne in his communication style, and INTJs tend to give off a very definitive vibe that George Lucas doesn't seem to. Star Wars as a whole is written is a much more NFP style than an NTJ style (dark, lots of strategy, lots of plot twists, several story lines interweaving with each other)
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  5. #95
    Vaguely Precise Seymour's Avatar
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    Conflating Mal's perspective with Whedon's is misleading. From Joss Whedon: Conversations:
    Quote Originally Posted by p68
    "Mal's politics are very reactionary and 'Big government is bad' and 'Don't interfere with my life,'"" Whedon explains. "And sometimes he's wrong—because sometimes the Alliance is America, this beautiful shining light of democracy. But sometimes the Alliance is America in Vietnam: we have a lot of petty politics, we are way out of our league and we have no right to control these people. And yet! Sometimes the Allience is America in Nazi Germany. And Mal can't see that, because he was a Vietnamese."
    and
    Quote Originally Posted by p68
    "Whatever I may think of him politically, [Mal's] a guy who looks into the void and sees nothing but the void—and ways there is no moral structure, there is no help, no one's coming, no one gets it, I have to to do it."
    and
    Quote Originally Posted by p110
    "Mal is somebody that I knew, as I created him, I would not get along with. I don't think we have the same politics. But that's sort of the point. I mean, if the movie's about anything, it's about the right to be wrong. It's about the messiness of people. And if you try to eradicate that, you eradicate them."
    and
    Quote Originally Posted by p113
    "The political statement that Serenity makes is very blatant—but it can be embraced by someone who's extremely conservative or extremely liberal. That's not the point. The point is that it's a personal statement. [...] And with the show, the idea was to have as many points of view as possible. The reason I made the Alliance a generally benign, enlightened society was so that I could engage these people in a debate about it."
    So, to me is sounds like Whedon is aware that politics affect real people. Even when the solutions are generally good, it's never an unalloyed good. And, conversely, a perfect solution will never fit real people, because real people are messy.

    Whedon certainly doesn't sound like he personally believes government (even big government) is inherently the Big Bad. It's more complicated than that, and so are the solutions.

    That's one of my problems with Libertarianism, because it offers a simple solutions that claims "government is the problem, individuals are the solution." You know what's the biggest problem with government? People. You know what can turn a corrupt government around when all else fails? People.

    Same with corporations, churches, charities, the military and the school board. All organizations are affected by human nature, so they are all flawed and corruptible, just as we are as individuals. Unless you outlaw both organizations and the amassing of power (including wealth), corruption and the abuse of power will be things we are always fighting against.

    That doesn't mean we shouldn't try to structure things to encourage transparency and accountability and to discourage corruption and abuses of power. We should try to optimize what we can... but keeping in mind that there are limits and that our own human nature limits what's workable.

  6. #96
    Member Ghostwheel's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Speed Gavroche View Post
    And his idea are very libertarian, in Serenity, for example, the heroes are authentic libertarians (same for scooby gang and Angel's team) and the enemy is not a capitalist system, but a welfare state.
    No.

    In Firefly, when Preacher gets shot, Mal and crew bring him to an Alliance ship for medical care. The Alliance goons could care less. They're unwilling to spend any time or money on treating Preacher ... until Preacher takes out his identicard, which informs the feds that he has an Alliance security clearance, i.e., is one of them.

    A welfare state would've just treated him. Compare to how the United Federation of Planets in Star Trek functions. Free medical care for everyone.

    The Alliance is an evil empire. Their "evil" is not in giving everybody free medical care (as if!), but in conquering those who prefer to remain independent.

  7. #97
    Senior Member KDude's Avatar
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    Just because someone writes a space western doesn't mean they're injecting their own ideals into it. Westerns in general carry a bunch of libertarian themes. It's the whole pioneer/independent/make your own way into the world spirit. Etc.. It's just a trope. One any writer can tap into.

    Just like other tropes he taps into with other shows. I mean, Buffy is a control freak, for example. There isn't a night she lets slip by without being vigilant. And Angel doesn't value freedom. He's a vampire who's taken the mantle upon himself to be a "Champion" of killing other vampires.

  8. #98
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    James Hetfield is an INTJ.

  9. #99
    Senior Member bcubchgo's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Neveraskedtobeborn View Post
    James Hetfield is an INTJ.
    LOL he's actually an ESTP
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  10. #100
    Whisky Old & Women Young Speed Gavroche's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Lark View Post
    Got to be honest there's only one of them so far that I dont think is a complete asshole.
    Which one?

    Why the others are assholes?
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