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Thread: Abraham Lincoln

  1. #11
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    Quote Originally Posted by spamtar View Post
    In a few decades I doubt he will be held in as great esteem as he is now.
    what...why?

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    Quote Originally Posted by spamtar View Post
    INTp that really got too removed from the emotion costs (cost in lives/ "liberty" and individual suffering) of what he was fighting for. Clearly slavery was not the reason behind the war but rather a jumping point of demagoguery/propaganda to an otherwise mundane and unpopular power move. A power restructuring which a strict adoption of federalist goals (vs states rights) that ultimately resulted in the death of more Americans than any other war.
    It would help if you explained your basis -- because that's not the Lincoln I am aware of from the bios that described his behavior, thinking, and state of mind from correspondence, etc.

    Put blankly, he agonized over this shit. Continuously.

    This sounds like you having not done actual reading of Lincoln, and instead imposing your own generalized political values over top of the existence of the Civil War.

    What's your source material?
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  3. #13
    Senior Member Viridian's Avatar
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    Someone on Personality Cafe suggested INFJ with a strong tertiary Ti... what do you guys think?

  4. #14
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    INFJ 9w1 So/Sp.
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    E=60% S=55% T=70% P=80%

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  5. #15
    Ghost Monkey Soul Vizconde's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jennifer View Post
    It would help if you explained your basis -- because that's not the Lincoln I am aware of from the bios that described his behavior, thinking, and state of mind from correspondence, etc.

    Put blankly, he agonized over this shit. Continuously.

    This sounds like you having not done actual reading of Lincoln, and instead imposing your own generalized political values over top of the existence of the Civil War.

    What's your source material?
    The generalization is mine as I appearently clearly indicated, but there is nothing in it that would red flag factual disparity by historians . Its a fair opinion after analysis of those facts.

    This statement is based on facts of general acceptance of the accounts of Lincoln and the status of federalism which can be viewed from reading U.S. Constitution and the early federalism issue related U.S. Supreme Court cases as compendium to standard U.S. history texts.

    Since the Revolution, there was a lingering issue as to the power struggle on state and central government and the Civil War essentially was the federal government telling the states "its my way or the highway", not "preserving" the delicate balance illustrated in the U.S. Constitution that favored a weaker central government.

    The facts are is essentially undisputed it is the textbook historian spin/propoganda which I call into dispute [the ass kissing light that most bios put on Lincoln]. In all fairness, books trashing Lincoln don't sell as well as the publishers might wish; so they don't sell them because they know their market. A market of an indoctrinated public who have this mythological view of Lincoln as some superhero who single handedly freed the slaves from captivity towards some sort of prosperous state of being.

    England freed their slaves without all the killing not long thereafter. This begs the question of whether all the killing (and ultimately resentment and more indirect oppression towards blacks in the post reconstruction south) was necessary or otherwise could have been accomplished in a less violent/costly manner.

    Thus I don't care if Lincoln agonised while dropping tears in his soup as he contemplated the rape of the souther states(essentially separate countries at the time, similar to the EU countries) or whether Hitler slept like a baby. Its not the point. The point is a proper gaging of morality through reasonable criteria such as a cost/benefit analysis weighed agaisnt reasonable alternatives.

    The point is that "preserving the union" was not about preserving the status quo rather it was an invasion on the individual sovereign of the states which involved a great deal of killing,rape and destruction of property including the civilian populace so that the federal government and the powerful north eastern states could dominate the southern states.

    The Emancipation proclamation was great only in the sense of great propaganda. It was done to weaken the confederacy and not about justice or natural law (absurd as to its minimal effect on the slave holding Union states).

    By today's standard he would be deemed vicariously liable mass murderer and a tyrant if he attempted a similar invasion.
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    Spamtar - a strange combination of boorish drunkeness and erudite discussions, or what I call "an Irish academic"

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    Quote Originally Posted by Sarcasticus View Post
    INTP seems to be the consensus of opinions I've read.
    Agree

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  7. #17
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    ESFP. He went clubbing a lot.
    NTJ's are the only types that have ever made me feel emo.
    ENP's are the only types that have ever made me feel like a sensor.


    There are two great days in a person's life - the day we are born and the day we discover why. --William Barclay

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  9. #19
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    Unlucky.

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