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Thread: criminals

  1. #21
    Senior Member swordpath's Avatar
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    Is it possible you adopted this philosophy as a way to justify, to some degree, your father's actions?

  2. #22
    Occasional Member Evan's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Seanan View Post
    The difference being the spiritual viewpoint vs the mundane one. I agree in the goodness of all spiritually but we live in a mundane world... that's the yardstick. I really don't ascribe, although I once did, to the idea that a serial killer is a good person doing bad things... and, really, what's the point? The law is going to deal with that person the same way no matter how "good" they are. Should they be let off because they're really a "good" person?
    i never said everyone's a "good" person.

    and yes, what is the point? i don't see the point in making dispositional value judgments. the law is what the law is, and that's fine. value judgments are unnecessary.

    every action has a consequence. the consequences are what they are. saying someone is a bad person for making a decision brings in too much subjectivity. same is true for "good" people.

    i use subjective value judgments when i decide who I want to put effort into. there are plenty of people that i don't care for at all. but it's not because they're BAD overall, it's just because i personally don't care for them.

  3. #23
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    Quote Originally Posted by dissonance View Post
    i never said everyone's a "good" person.

    and yes, what is the point? i don't see the point in making dispositional value judgments. the law is what the law is, and that's fine. value judgments are unnecessary.

    every action has a consequence. the consequences are what they are. saying someone is a bad person for making a decision brings in too much subjectivity. same is true for "good" people.

    i use subjective value judgments when i decide who I want to put effort into. there are plenty of people that i don't care for at all. but it's not because they're BAD overall, it's just because i personally don't care for them.
    Hear, hear!

  4. #24
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    Quote Originally Posted by deep rain View Post
    I don't believe (again, my own opinion) your choices necessarily make you who are. You yourself is one whole being inside, and on the outside are the choices that you make. On the inside, we, are capable of becoming misguided, lost, and sick. Which leads to the bad decisions you make on the outside. But on the inside, you aren't your choices, you are your wholesome being, that I believe everyone is originally "good". I don't believe you can become a "bad" person, you just become lost. Which affects the decisions you make on the outside that are wrong.
    I hear you and when I'm up against something like this, I do a flip side to check out my thinking... and, yes, like you these are only my opinions. Hypothetically, I live in a Neistchian world... where it has been determined that "bad" is "good." So I'm a person who will do absolutely anything for power (the only good).. including murder... so that's a "good" thing. Now, someone comes to me who is starving... an enemy... I give them food. They may later overtake me if they survive starvation. I help them survive. I have now become a "bad" person? Obviously, the terms are based in value judgements. We cannot arbitrarily assign them. So for me, the actions are the person... those are apparent and not arbitrary... and can a person change from being a good one to a bad one and vice versa... of course... neither is written in stone like saying all people are "good" no matter what they do.

  5. #25
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    Quote Originally Posted by TheBeatGoesOn View Post
    Is it possible you adopted this philosophy as a way to justify, to some degree, your father's actions?
    No, not exactly. On a personal level, even though he does what he does, he isn't a bad person inside, he's just using revenge as a way to get back at the world. He's still a child inside, crying for help, and acting the way he does thinking this as his only way.

    He's not the only reason why I have these certain beliefs. I see things as a "big picture" (I guess that's the N in me), and everyone, whether you do good or bad things, have feelings and emotions. Everyone, as conscious, is aware of things. And everyone needs love. People become sick when they don't receive love especially for a long time. Doesn't matter your background, race, gender, history of jailtime or whatever, we all still feel. Whether you want to admit it or deny it or not, you still need love, even if you think you're okay without it. There are things in this physical world that are leisurely and pleasing but there is the one thing you can't feel fulfilled from the material world, and that's love.

    People don't become bad people because of what they do. You learn from the choices you make, bad or good, and it is your being that will benefit from it. Like I said, I believe everyone is originally good souls, you just become ill inside which drives you to make bad choices. But I don't believe it's possible to be a "bad" person. You just become lost and sick but you can find our way back first by fully realizing yourself (which many don't) and by making the self-decision that you'll stop the bad acts and try to get to the light, you'll slowly but surely become well again.

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    I think we've come down to the point that no matter how long these "arguments", it all comes down that it is each of our own opinions, therefore it'll get no where. Either continue arguing, or respect the others' opinions - leave it at that, or question it, but not argue. I respect the others' opinons on this, as I hold on to my own as well. But I don't want to argue anymore as we're only just expressing our own opinions.

    So let's get back to the OP's message, shall we?


    What do you guys think of Thinking types being criminals and Feeling types being criminals?

  7. #27
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    Quote Originally Posted by deep rain View Post
    I think we've come down to the point that no matter how long these "arguments", it all comes down that it is each of our own opinions, therefore it'll get no where. Either continue arguing, or respect the others' opinions - leave it at that, or question it, but not argue. I respect the others' opinons on this, as I hold on to my own as well. But I don't want to argue anymore as we're only just expressing our own opinions.

    So let's get back to the OP's message, shall we?


    What do you guys think of Thinking types being criminals and Feeling types being criminals?
    Wow.. its seem you're upset.

    Sure they're opinions and quite philosophical. I happen to enjoy those discussions as it helps crystalize my own viewpoint. It seems to me a discussion the OP is calling for and the result ascribing the possibilities of heinous acts to one type or another might upset you more than you already are. But I will comply with your wishes... meaning... thread closed for me.

  8. #28
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    Quote Originally Posted by Seanan View Post
    Wow.. its seem you're upset.

    Sure they're opinions and quite philosophical. I happen to enjoy those discussions as it helps crystalize my own viewpoint. It seems to me a discussion the OP is calling for and the result ascribing the possibilities of heinous acts to one type or another might upset you more than you already are. But I will comply with your wishes... meaning... thread closed for me.
    Nah, I'm not upset. I just don't want this thread to become an argument.

  9. #29
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    Quote Originally Posted by deep rain View Post
    Nah, I'm not upset. I just don't want this thread to become an argument.
    Sorry... I knew you weren't the OP and didn't think you were a mod. Respectfully... there's a difference between debate/discussion (and they're pretty much based on opinions) and arguing. I sure didn't see any arguing going on. I think, if there was a problem, a mod would step in. I have great confidence in them. Okay, done... finished.

  10. #30
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    Quote Originally Posted by Seanan View Post
    Sorry... I knew you weren't the OP and didn't think you were a mod. Respectfully... there's a difference between debate/discussion (and they're pretty much based on opinions) and arguing. I sure didn't see any arguing going on. I think, if there was a problem, a mod would step in. I have great confidence in them. Okay, done... finished.
    No arguments were present. I just didn't want a possible one coming in soon. I hope all misunderstandings are cleared now.

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