The ESFP "stupid" myth.

[Hive]

well, let's see, the S is rather obvious (I mean, your stereotypical idiotic character is certainly not going to be an N) as far as EFP is concerned, Es are considered less intellligent because they talk more and seem to think less. Feelers are considered less intelligent than Thinkers because they're less analytical and Ps are considered less intelligent because they are more impulsive (if anything, the opposite might be true. perceivers are more adapt at thinking and doing at the same time. this necessetates being able to process information quicker than a J would have to. this is simply a speculation though)

I hope you are talking about how the myth came to be and not making a statement here.

 

[Pand0ra]

Nobody is saying that ALL of one group is something. Members of certain groups have PREDISPOSITIONS to CERTAIN TRAITS. Not all INTJs are "evil", obviously, but they are more likely than, say, ESFPs, to put less of an emphasis on the ethical implications of their plans and ideas. Most are driven and their ambitions tend to overpower them and make them "power hungry". All of this could be considered "evil". INTJs are more likely to have "evil" qualities than ESFPs. Would you disagree? Would you say that an INTP has just as much of an ability to preform in front of a crowd than an ESFP? This whole debate is incredibly stupid.

Um, yes... a great deal of fictitious 'evil' characters would/could be considered INTJ; that was my little joke.

And yes this debate is a bit stupid, but such is life. What is even more stupid is that people are taking it seriously.

 

[Litvyak]

Nobody is saying that ALL of one group is something. Members of certain groups have PREDISPOSITIONS to CERTAIN TRAITS. Not all INTJs are "evil", obviously, but they are more likely than, say, ESFPs, to put less of an emphasis on the ethical implications of their plans and ideas. Most are driven and their ambitions tend to overpower them and make them "power hungry". All of this could be considered "evil". INTJs are more likely to have "evil" qualities than ESFPs. Would you disagree? Would you say that an INTP has just as much of an ability to preform in front of a crowd than an ESFP? This whole debate is incredibly stupid.

INTJs are less likely to consider ethical implications than ESFPs.
INTPs are less likely to be public speakers than ESFPs.
ESFPs are not less likely to be intelligent than INTs.

It is pretty stupid indeed. Don't overstep the boundaries of MBTI.

 

[Elfboy]

I hope you are talking about how the myth came to be and not making a statement here.

I am talking about how the myth came to be.

 

[Elfboy]

INTJs are less likely to consider ethical implications than ESFPs.
INTPs are less likely to be public speakers than ESFPs.
ESFPs are not less likely to be intelligent than INTs.

It is pretty stupid indeed. Don't overstep the boundaries of MBTI.

I disagree with the last one. not that ESFPs are likely to be stupid so much as NTJs are likely to be extremely intelligent.

 

[wolfy]

I wish there was a MBTI Myth Busters with hosts with big moustaches and all that. Let's blow that to smithereens.

 

[Litvyak]

NTJs are likely to be extremely intelligent.

NTJs are more likely to show off with their intelligence.
NTJs also prefer topics most of us consider to be "intellectual", yet completely detached from the real world.

 

[Perch420]

INTJs are less likely to consider ethical implications than ESFPs.
INTPs are less likely to be public speakers than ESFPs.
ESFPs are not less likely to be intelligent than INTs.

It is pretty stupid indeed. Don't overstep the boundaries of MBTI.

Yes they are. Are you honestly saying that the average IQ of all the ESFPs in the world is the same as the average IQ of all the INTJs or INTPs?

 

[Oaky]

^ Well if we are going IQ why not ask the ESFP on the forum who is a mensa member? She probably won't answer though. She hasn't been on for a while.

Most ESFPs will not care about intelligence so they are less likely to adhere themselves to critical thinking challenges. This will include taking IQ tests seriously. It doesn't mean they are more incapable of doing so then intelligence obsessed INTs who try their hardest to look as intellectually challenging as possible. The case is it will be far more difficult to get an accurate understanding of an ESFPs critical thinking skills than it is an INT's critical thinking skills.

 

[funkadelik]

I wish there was a MBTI Myth Busters with hosts with big moustaches and all that. Let's blow that to smithereens.

That sounds like a spectacularly boring show.

 

[Perch420]

So what? That's one person. Are you this delusional? Do you understand the concept of statistics? Karl Pilkington is an INTP with an IQ of 80. Does this mean all INTPs have an IQ of 80? Fucking of course not. This is pathetic.

 

[Oaky]

So what? That's one person. Are you this delusional? Do you understand the concept of statistics? Karl Pilkington is an INTP with an IQ of 80. Does this mean all INTPs have an IQ of 80? Fucking of course not. This is pathetic.

Pathetic, is ignoring my main argument and attacking a not so useful small addition added at the beginning of my post for interest's sake.

 

[KDude]

So what? That's one person. Are you this delusional? Do you understand the concept of statistics? Karl Pilkington is an INTP with an IQ of 80. Does this mean all INTPs have an IQ of 80? Fucking of course not. This is pathetic.

[youtube=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=x52sA9IpiAU]/[/youtube]

edit: Damn, I hate the Offspring. Good song title though.

 

[Perch420]

- STATISTICALLY, INTJS AND INTPS ARE OVERWHELMINGLY OVERREPRESENTED IN PEOPLE WITH AN IQ OF ABOVE 130. THIS IS IRREFUTABLE.

-INTELLIGENCE IS PARTLY IF NOT PREDOMINANTLY ENVIRONMENTALLY ACQUIRED. ESFPS ARE LESS LIKELY TO BE DRAWN TO INTELLECTUALLY STIMULATING ENVIRONMENTS, THEREFORE THEY WILL BE LESS INTELLIGENT. INTJS AND INTPS TEND TO BE DRAWN TO INTELLECTUALLY STIMULATING ENVIRONMENTS. THEREFORE, THEY ARE GENERALLY MORE INTELLIGENT.

WHAT DON'T YOU UNDERSTAND??????? WHAT IT ANY OF THIS IS REMOTELY INCORRECT????????

I can't fucking believe that the poisonous nauseating cancer of political correctness has spread to something so esoteric as personality types. Intelligence is a trait, just like any other. If you're saying that all types are of equal intelligence, why aren't you in tandem claiming that INTJs are just as, say, socially gregarious as ESFPs, it's just that they, as you put it, "don't care to show it." That would be ridiculous.

 

[KDude]

I suggest you smoke some weed and lower your own intelligence level.

I usually wouldn't suggest it, but damn dude.

 

[Perch420]

Pathetic, is ignoring my main argument and attacking a not so useful small addition added at the beginning of my post for interest's sake.

Because it's nonsensical and absurd. If intelligence is a trait like any other, and ESFPs simply "suppress" it by being interested in different types of activities, what about all the other traits that people have? I already fucking said this at least 4 times, but here we go again: By your logic, does an INTP simply not "care" about social interaction, but can be as socially proficient as an ENFJ? No, of course not: the INTP naturally suppresses Fe, just like the ESFP naturally suppresses Ni, which leads to, just like social awkwardness for the INTP, shallowness and vapidness if not un-suppressed. The reason you're saying all types are of equal intelligence is because you aren't using any sort of rationality to deduce your conclusion: it's an emotional conclusion because intelligence is so valued in our society, you would rather have all types be of the same intelligence even though it's obviously untrue.

 

[Thalassa]

- STATISTICALLY, INTJS AND INTPS ARE OVERWHELMINGLY OVERREPRESENTED IN PEOPLE WITH AN IQ OF ABOVE 130. THIS IS IRREFUTABLE.

But good lord aren't so many of them emotionally retarded. I don't just mean socially retarded - emotionally retarded, like INTJs over-simplifying human behavior and relationships to a point that they look stupid when they discuss it, no matter how high their IQ may be in maths or sciences, et al.

IQ tests are skewed toward a particular type of intelligence.

-INTELLIGENCE IS PARTLY IF NOT PREDOMINANTLY ENVIRONMENTALLY ACQUIRED. ESFPS ARE LESS LIKELY TO BE DRAWN TO INTELLECTUALLY STIMULATING ENVIRONMENTS, THEREFORE THEY WILL BE LESS INTELLIGENT. INTJS AND INTPS TEND TO BE DRAWN TO INTELLECTUALLY STIMULATING ENVIRONMENTS. THEREFORE, THEY ARE GENERALLY MORE INTELLIGENT.

WHAT DON'T YOU UNDERSTAND??????? WHAT IT ANY OF THIS IS REMOTELY INCORRECT????????

Well, that it requires intelligence to be a musician, a convincing performer, an artist, or an athlete. Some ESFPs are even writers of literature. I'm not sure what you're going on about, but it makes me laugh.

Did you know there's an ESFP in med school on this forum? Yeah....

I can't fucking believe that the poisonous nauseating cancer of political correctness has spread to something so esoteric as personality types. Intelligence is a trait, just like any other. If you're saying that all types are of equal intelligence, why aren't you in tandem claiming that INTJs are just as, say, socially gregarious as ESFPs, it's just that they, as you put it, "don't care to show it." That would be ridiculous.

I think this is less about being politically correct, and pointing out how dumb INTJs and INTPs can be in their own way.

 

[Oaky]

- STATISTICALLY, INTJS AND INTPS ARE OVERWHELMINGLY OVERREPRESENTED IN PEOPLE WITH AN IQ OF ABOVE 130. THIS IS IRREFUTABLE.
-INTELLIGENCE IS PARTLY IF NOT PREDOMINANTLY ENVIRONMENTALLY ACQUIRED. ESFPS ARE LESS LIKELY TO BE DRAWN TO INTELLECTUALLY STIMULATING ENVIRONMENTS, THEREFORE THEY WILL BE LESS INTELLIGENT. INTJS AND INTPS TEND TO BE DRAWN TO INTELLECTUALLY STIMULATING ENVIRONMENTS. THEREFORE, THEY ARE GENERALLY MORE INTELLIGENT.

I can agree that the general thought processes with the INTP and INTJ tend to dwell more in intellectual readings and thoughts which of course makes them enjoy mind challenges and thinking in it's most critical manner whereas not for the ESFP. But then the second point you state goes the path where you have to believe it is possible for ESFPs to acquire as high an intelligence as the INTs. What would be wrong is the statement "ESFPs are generally incapable of higher intelligence then INTs". We are on different terms. The point I mostly argue is the capability of intelligence. The point you mostly argue is the statistical viewpoint and why such is the case. In that you may be right.

Because it's nonsensical and absurd. If intelligence is a trait like any other, and ESFPs simply "suppress" it by being interested in different types of activities, what about all the other traits that people have? I already fucking said this at least 4 times, but here we go again: By your logic, does an INTP simply not "care" about social interaction, but can be as socially proficient as an ENFJ? No, of course not: the INTP naturally suppresses Fe, just like the ESFP naturally suppresses Ni, which leads to, just like social awkwardness for the INTP, shallowness and vapidness if not un-suppressed. The reason you're saying all types are of equal intelligence is because you aren't using any sort of rationality to deduce your conclusion: it's an emotional conclusion because intelligence is so valued in our society, you would rather have all types be of the same intelligence even though it's obviously untrue.

My explanation is above.

 

[Perch420]

But good lord aren't so many of them emotionally retarded. I don't just mean socially retarded - emotionally retarded, like INTJs over-simplifying human behavior and relationships to a point that they look stupid when they discuss it, no matter how high their IQ may be in maths or sciences, et al.

EXACTLY!!! The weak point of the INTx is social interaction and dealing with external stress. Similarly, the weak point of the ESFP is complex reasoning and Ni-type "deep" thinking.

IQ tests are skewed toward a particular type of intelligence.

There's only one type of "intelligence": the ability to think and reason effectively. The "multiple intelligence" movement is a way to make everyone feel good about themselves because intelligence is so valued in society. I do think that things like spatial awareness and the like are important, but they shouldn't be called "intelligence", really. Regardless, this is just meaningless semantics. The "intelligence" we're talking about is the ability to reason, which IQ tests attempt to value.

Well, that it requires intelligence to be a musician, a convincing performer, an artist, or an athlete. Some ESFPs are even writers are literature. I'm not sure what you're going on about, but it makes me laugh.

No. Those things require determination, musical acuity, and other skills, but not "intelligence". Intelligence, again, is the ability to think logically and come up with novel solutions to problems. This is an oversimplification, but it'll do for the purposes of the discussion.

Did you know there's an ESFP in med school on this forum? Yeah....

Who gives a shit? I know an INTP who is gay. That means literally nothing whatsoever at all.

I think this is less about being politically correct, and pointing out how dumb INTJs and INTPs can be in their own way.

No.

 

[Thalassa]

EXACTLY!!! The weak point of the INTx is social interaction and dealing with external stress. Similarly, the weak point of the ESFP is complex reasoning and Ni-type "deep" thinking.



There's only one type of "intelligence": the ability to think and reason effectively. The "multiple intelligence" movement is a way to make everyone feel good about themselves because intelligence is so valued in society. I do think that things like spatial awareness and the like are important, but they shouldn't be called "intelligence", really. Regardless, this is just meaningless semantics. The "intelligence" we're talking about is the ability to reason, which IQ tests attempt to value.



No. Those things require determination, musical acuity, and other skills, but not "intelligence". Intelligence, again, is the ability to think logically and come up with novel solutions to problems. This is an oversimplification, but



Who gives a shit? I know an INTP who is gay. That means literally nothing whatsoever at all.



No.

Yes, I'm telling you bro, when INTJs on INTJ forum, collectively as a group, talk about people and relationships, they look like slow twelve year olds. It's kind of sad.

They look to me, as an ENFP, as I guess ESFPs must look to you.

There's more than one type of intelligence. You're confusing being intelligent with being "intellectual."