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The ESFP "stupid" myth.

Lex Talionis

New member
Joined
Sep 21, 2009
Messages
382
MBTI Type
INTJ
I really doubt anyone's offended. I'd say that this is not exactly the type of arena ESFP's care about enough to get butthurt by....considering that they are barely here to even give themselves the opportunity to care in the first place. :D That said, even though I might be one of the few here, I don't even know who Lex Talonis is. Fat chance I'm gonna start getting hurt by some random dude I know nothing about. And even if I did know him, the critcism is silly to me. Getting one's hate on for someone not being strongly rationalist or something is one of the most unrational things to do, in my opinion. There are multiple ways to value people. And about the only people worth hating are like in the extreme: the murderers, thieves.. that kind of shit. But hating people just for not being super smart is kind of crazy.

I don't "hate" ESFPs, I just think the vast majority are stupid. Also, your post denotes that your thought pattern is inconsistent and wandering, which only corroborates my claims.
 

Synarch

Once Was
Joined
Oct 14, 2008
Messages
8,445
MBTI Type
ENTP
Most seem rather unintellectual. But, definitely not stupid. Often very intelligent and successful.
 
G

Ginkgo

Guest
I don't "hate" ESFPs, I just think the vast majority are stupid. Also, your post denotes that your thought pattern is inconsistent and wandering, which only corroborates my claims.

You think the vast majority of the human population consists of a bunch of insipid, mouth breathing ingrates, don't you?
 

Lex Talionis

New member
Joined
Sep 21, 2009
Messages
382
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INTJ
It doesn't escape my notice that the vast majority of posters who defend ESFPs with any semblance of reason are ENTPs.

ENTPs have always struck me as very leftist by nature, and incapable of aligning themselves with constructive ideologies instead of stagnating egalitarianism.

What does this tell us? It tells us that ENTPs are the poorest of the rationals when it comes to drawing inferences. Perhaps I should open a thread examining why ENTPs are the weakest NTs.
 

Moiety

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Joined
Aug 3, 2008
Messages
5,996
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ISFJ
It doesn't escape my notice that the vast majority of posters who defend ESFPs with any semblance of reason are ENTPs.

ENTPs have always struck me as very leftist by nature, and incapable of aligning themselves with constructive ideologies instead of stagnating egalitarianism.

What does this tell us? It tells us that ENTPs are the poorest of the rationals when it comes to drawing inferences. Perhaps I should open a thread examining why ENTPs are the weakest NTs.

Lol I just love Ni megalomania.
 

Oaky

Travelling mind
Joined
Jan 15, 2009
Messages
6,180
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INTJ
Enneagram
5w6
Instinctual Variant
sp/so
No, there is one ESFP I know quite well... The people around him nicknamed him 'Einstein' for his vast knowledge, intellectual capability and really fast talking. But he definitely is an ESFP. He knows how to get along with everyone and he understands people quite well.
 

PeaceBaby

reborn
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Without an examination of the posts in this extensive thread, I can only offer my experiential analysis.

My son is ESFP and extremely bright. It's more the choice of how he uses that in the world. If I had a dollar for all the times a teacher was thrilled at his displays of intelligence, yet lamented his rejection of doing book-work, I would have ... at least 50 dollars! :D

My daughter is INTJ and has more real-world success, and is now excelling in university, but those just aren't priorities for my son. Despite the fact that academia appears to come easier to him, not her.

It's not for lack of ability per se. And I admire his ability to live in the moment. Naturally we are all here to learn not only from each other, but from what we are given / what we lack.

To assume all intelligence is derived from and expressed in the same way is preposterous.
 
G

Ginkgo

Guest
It doesn't escape my notice that the vast majority of posters who defend ESFPs with any semblance of reason are ENTPs.

ENTPs have always struck me as very leftist by nature, and incapable of aligning themselves with constructive ideologies instead of stagnating egalitarianism.

What does this tell us? It tells us that ENTPs are the poorest of the rationals when it comes to drawing inferences. Perhaps I should open a thread examining why ENTPs are the weakest NTs.

Create a thread about how INTJs are the poorest at relinquishing inferences in spite of contradictory information while you're at it.
 

simulatedworld

Freshman Member
Joined
Nov 7, 2008
Messages
5,552
MBTI Type
ENTP
Enneagram
7w6
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sx/so
I don't really see how any of these factors make one "stupid." Recognizing patterns, such as in a conspiracy, is a characteristic of intelligence.

Unless one overestimates the frequency of these patterns and thus erroneously believes there are conspiracies everywhere where there aren't. You know, the tin foil hat types? Believe it or not, Ni runs into inane nonsense when taken too far, just like any function.

As for "prejudicial beliefs toward various demographic groups they dislike," well, that just strikes me as more of the same leftist nonsense. Humans are social animals that gravitate toward groups, which is why our society takes up the characteristics of the group, and not the individual. Discrimination against groups is perfectly natural.

Wait--demographic prejudice is leftist now? Who are you kidding? Shall I start listing radical religious groups whose platforms are based entirely on hatred toward the demographics they dislike? And how virtually all of them are on the lunatic far right?

Discrimination against individuals simply because they belong to a certain group is not perfectly natural.

No, we don't all know a Dale Gribble in real life. Dale is a fictional character designed for comedic purposes, and an exaggerated one at that; Dale could easily be an FP and not an NT. Regardless, Dale is hardly stupid, only paranoid and delusional.

Dale is quite clearly Ni dominant. If you don't know someone like that in real life, then lucky you. I dunno how this works in schizoid INTJ-supremacist land, but in real life a guy who's paranoid and delusional enough to believe a crack in his neighbor's driveway signifies that the Chinese have begun mass worldwide invasion (and yet somehow can't figure out after 12 years that his native American son was fathered by the native American man his wife has been cheating on him with for years) is a moron.

You seem to think it can't be stupid just because it's Ni.

ESFPs, on the other hand, have an entire web of traits that influence their intellectual abilities in a negative manner.

Sure, when you judge "intellect" in terms of "things NTs are good at." I see you've ignored a large portion of my previous post, most notably the section where I mentioned the idea of multiple intelligences. If you erroneously define "intelligence" as "whatever NTs are good at", then of course you'll think other types are stupid by comparison.

Unfortunately for you, intelligence is too multi-faceted to be measured on a one-dimensional linear scale.

By the way, forum, I think we've found our resident Dale Gribble--complete with left-ophobia, INTJ supremacy, silly justifications for blatant prejudice, the opinion that ubiquitous belief in nonsensical conspiracy theories is a hallmark of great intelligence, and don't forget Nietzsche quote signature. (Nietzsche was a brilliant INTJ. Unfortunately, that doesn't make every idiot who sticks a Nietzsche quote in his signature brilliant too.)

But don't worry about that--since you're an INTJ, I'm sure you're waaaay too smart for all of us inferior types anyway. You're much too busy proving that 9/11 was an inside job and debunking the moon landing, right?

Ironically this guy doesn't seem to think he knows any Dale Gribbles in real life. :rofl1:
 

Oaky

Travelling mind
Joined
Jan 15, 2009
Messages
6,180
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INTJ
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sp/so
It doesn't escape my notice that the vast majority of posters who defend ESFPs with any semblance of reason are ENTPs.

ENTPs have always struck me as very leftist by nature, and incapable of aligning themselves with constructive ideologies instead of stagnating egalitarianism.

What does this tell us? It tells us that ENTPs are the poorest of the rationals when it comes to drawing inferences. Perhaps I should open a thread examining why ENTPs are the weakest NTs.
Hmmm. You surprise me with your ideologies. Do you sincerely believe that ESFPs have a lack of intellectual capability? Do you judge their minds according to the face value projection that they project towards you? Do you perceive them in a certain way and not count that the assumptions you get from your perceptions could be false? Do you not like how they project themselves and cloud it with the belief that they are unintelligent? Have you seen inside the mind of an ESFP? ESFPs do not project with their minds. They project with their senses. So it is unlikely that one would detect the intellectual capability of their minds.
Unless of course you are talking about the frequency of use of the mind over senses instead of quality of use.
 

simulatedworld

Freshman Member
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Nov 7, 2008
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^ He's defined "intelligence" as "everything that INTJs have." Of course he thinks ESFPs are stupid.
 

PeaceBaby

reborn
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Jan 7, 2009
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Dear Lex Talionis:

"One of the signs of passing youth is the birth of a sense of fellowship with other human beings as we take our place among them." VIRGINIA WOOLF

Perhaps it is time for you to join ... rather than maintain your distance.
 

Oaky

Travelling mind
Joined
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Messages
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INTJ
Enneagram
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^ He's defined "intelligence" as "everything that INTJs have." Of course he thinks ESFPs are stupid.
Well I guess that's him living in his little ideal fantasy world. He's quite deluded.
 
G

Ginkgo

Guest
A sibling of INTJ123.

When he realizes he's wrong (assuming he's not just trolling), he won't tell us. Why? Because that would compromise his appearance as an intellectually superior INTJ.
 

Jaguar

Active member
Joined
May 5, 2007
Messages
20,647
Hahaha!! :rofl1: Definitely



illuminati-structure.jpg



:D
 

Lex Talionis

New member
Joined
Sep 21, 2009
Messages
382
MBTI Type
INTJ
Unless one overestimates the frequency of these patterns and thus erroneously believes there are conspiracies everywhere where there aren't. You know, the tin foil hat types? Believe it or not, Ni runs into inane nonsense when taken too far, just like any function.

Being able to discriminate and recognize real patterns is a sign of intelligence. Being able to recognize patterns, regardless if there is an underlying force behind them, is also a sign of intelligence.

Wait--demographic prejudice is leftist now? Who are you kidding? Shall I start listing radical religious groups whose platforms are based entirely on hatred toward the demographics they dislike? And how virtually all of them are on the lunatic far right?

No, I meant that your comment reeked of the typical leftist nonsense; this comment simply serves to supplement my original remark.

Discrimination against individuals simply because they belong to a certain group is not perfectly natural.

It is perfectly natural. Babies recognize differences very early in life, and humans naturally gravitate toward that which is most like themselves.

Even Babies Discriminate: A NurtureShock Excerpt. - Newsweek.com

Deluded social experiments that seek to mold people in the way their inane theorists want them to be is not natural.

Dale is quite clearly Ni dominant. If you don't know someone like that in real life, then lucky you. I dunno how this works in schizoid INTJ-supremacist land, but in real life a guy who's paranoid and delusional enough to believe a crack in his neighbor's driveway signifies that the Chinese have begun mass worldwide invasion (and yet somehow can't figure out after 12 years that his native American son was fathered by the native American man his wife has been cheating on him with for years) is a moron.

The problem is, that even if Dale was an INTJ, he would clearly be a fringe exception. Yes, I would consider his actions and behaviors idiotic, and revealing of a latent stupidity, but he remains intelligent in a way that most ESFPs aren't: he shows ingenuity, concern for abstract reality, and has a vast amount of processing power to utilize his acquired knowledge.

Dale is quite irrational, which seems unlikely to me if his Te was developed enough to be a pure INTJ. Dale is also a caricature of the "paranoid conspiracy nut," and as such, I take his personality at face value and nothing more. I don't know of any "conspiracy nuts" in real life, only drug addicts or on television.

You seem to think it can't be stupid just because it's Ni.

Pattern recognition is not limited to Ni, nor is believing in "conspiracies." Go to any conspiracy website and you will notice that the vast majority of contributors are NTs of all types; but wait, so is most of the internet!

Sure, when you judge "intellect" in terms of "things NTs are good at." I see you've ignored a large portion of my previous post, most notably the section where I mentioned the idea of multiple intelligences. If you erroneously define "intelligence" as "whatever NTs are good at", then of course you'll think other types are stupid by comparison.

Intellect is what "NTs are good at." I apologize if this comes as a surprise or shatters your saccharine view of the world.

Unfortunately for you, intelligence is too multi-faceted to be measured on a one-dimensional linear scale.

I don't disagree, and this is not what I am doing.

By the way, forum, I think we've found our resident Dale Gribble--complete with left-ophobia, INTJ supremacy, silly justifications for blatant prejudice, the opinion that ubiquitous belief in nonsensical conspiracy theories is a hallmark of great intelligence, and don't forget Nietzsche quote signature. (Nietzsche was a brilliant INTJ. Unfortunately, that doesn't make every idiot who sticks a Nietzsche quote in his signature brilliant too.)

"Left-ophobia"? I don't fear leftists, only call them out on their bullsh*t.

As for "ubiquitous" belief in conspiracy theories, this is your stupid (ENTP) assertion with little basis in anything other than your limited (ENTP) head.

But don't worry about that--since you're an INTJ, I'm sure you're waaaay too smart for all of us inferior types anyway. You're much too busy proving that 9/11 was an inside job and debunking the moon landing, right?

I'm not going down this road, as this thread is not about "conspiracies," but I will tell you that your mockery is not only useless, but moronic, unless you can provide accurate and thorough explanations against these "conspiracies."

Ironically this guy doesn't seem to think he knows any Dale Gribbles in real life. :rofl1:

I don't see the irony. Dale Gribble is fictional and nobody I have ever met fit into his profile. Not even the most driven "conspiracy theorist."
 
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