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  1. #651
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    Quote Originally Posted by Perch420 View Post
    ESFPs and ESFJs have not contributed anything of value to society.
    I'm glad to see that you've finally found common ground with them

  2. #652
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    Originally posted by Perch420
    When confronted with a new symptom, the ESFP searches its database for basic facts and makes decisions based on that basis. The INTJ, on the other hand, synthesizes those same "basic facts" into an abstract field of ideas and comes up with totally new ways of solving problems, which, I might add, are then written down for the ESFPs to memorize and use as directed.
    This is nonsensical crap.

    ESFPs and ESFJs have not contributed anything of value to society.
    Tell that to my ESFP/ESFJ sister who is a straight A honor student/participates in many other activities/ desires to be either a graphic designer/drawer or meteorlogist.

    Savage Idealist / intelligent ENFP: 1

    Perch420 / immature troll: 0

  3. #653
    Senior Member Perch420's Avatar
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    Do you even know what trolling is? The official definition is to pretend to have a controversial opinion to provoke a response. I'm not doing that at all. Not everything that you disagree with is a "troll".
    “Tolerance is the virtue of the man without convictions.” - G. K. Chesterton

  4. #654
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    Oh, so you're just unwell. By calling you a troll I was actually giving you the benefit of the doubt.

  5. #655
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    Ok fine then, your not a troll Perch420, I was wrong for calling you that.

    You're an asshole.
    Last edited by Savage Idealist; 03-12-2011 at 09:35 PM. Reason: .

  6. #656
    Tier 1 Member LunaLuminosity's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by shortnsweet View Post
    The description you posted states that ESFP's tend to avoid theoretical thinking, and don't like classroom learning which says nothing about inborn intellectual ability. The IQ test that a lot of people here tend to refer to is about ability to learn, adjust to different scenarios and problems, and have the ability to solve those problems. There's no "deep" philosophical thinking involved, only quick and simple problem solving. So, one can be a stereotypical ESFP- someone who hates school, scoffs at the idea of opening a philosophy or physics book, and just wants to just go to the beach all day long and still have those adjusting and problem solving abilities (greater than that of any stereotypical INTJ,). Smart ESFP's can dance cicles around schools, never show up for class, spend all night partying and still get straight A's.(Because if you're intelligent, you've probably found out how to do so. ) It's not an ESFP's perogative to hang around with books, they want to be around people and excitement. That's what the description is saying. You can keep your nose in a book all day but inborn intelligence is inborn intelligence, it's not changing. "ESFP's don't like to theorize so they are dumb" is just a wall to hide behind so that some of you can say... "Well I like to theorize! I like going to class. That's something I can do all day to avoid life experience. That must make me smart, unlike an ESFP." Think again. I'd like to see half of you sitting next to my empty seat in class, (or doodling and snoozing self) and take bets about who's going to get the better grade. I'm pretty sure that most of my former classmates would have still put their money on me.

    ESFP's hate school, books, and theorizing. Intelligence is a whole other thing.


    Thank you for your perspective, shortnsweet

    Quote Originally Posted by PeaceBaby View Post
    This is replete with logical inconsistency. Your understanding of the definitions of both function preference and intelligence are inaccurate. Plus, the scope evident in the data-gathering component of your analysis is very narrow and shallow at best. Therefore, your conclusions are in error.
    If Perch was right about type being about strengths and weaknesses, I would take away his aux-Ti card for this. Luckily for him, he isn't correct

    Quote Originally Posted by Perch420 View Post
    Intelligence is, again, abstract creative thinking, which the ESFP, by definition, is incapable of doing at an above-average level. You or any other ESFP that gets good grades isn't intelligent, they are simply capable of absorbing information and regurgitating it. Again, this is not intelligence, just rote memorization ability.
    If only college was simply about spitting out information.... you are doomed to fail higher learning if you aren't capable of abstract creative thinking.

    So, no.

    But I understand that this is outside your area of expertise since you are most likely not in college yet. Not your fault or anything, just something for you to think about...

  7. #657
    Listening Oaky's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Perch420 View Post
    When confronted with a new symptom, the ESFP searches its database for basic facts and makes decisions based on that basis. The INTJ, on the other hand, synthesizes those same "basic facts" into an abstract field of ideas and comes up with totally new ways of solving problems, which, I might add, are then written down for the ESFPs to memorize and use as directed.
    Does this give them the disability to do the same as what INTJs do? Does it mean if they go by the INTJ thought process they would be weak at it?
    Someone who learns computer science for 3 years because he naturally loves it but reached the level of 'decent'. Then someone who has no interest in computer science but takes him one year to be at 'professional' level. Sure, INTJs may have practiced plenty but even INTJs can lack talent at it more than ESFPs who may practice bits and be at a higher level of intelligence than an INTJ.

    Organise your thoughts and properly distinct the different variables!

  8. #658
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    Originally posted by kyuuie
    Savage: What is more incredible is his lack of appreciation for memorization. It is a difficult thing to memorize large sums of information accurately and be able to use it effectively. There are creative, abstract ways of memorizing gobs of information so that it can be effectively wielded and utilized in situations necessary.
    I know that for sure, like memorization for me is usually fairly difficult and I tend to forget things quite easily. Yet I've known others (of varies personlities) who were great with memorizing information, so I do not think it is type related at all.

  9. #659
    Senior Member Perch420's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Savage Idealist View Post
    This is nonsensical crap.



    Tell that to my ESFP/ESFJ sister who is a straight A honor student/participates in many other activities/ desires to be either a graphic designer/drawer or meteorlogist.

    Savage Idealist / intelligent ENFP: 1

    Perch420 / immature troll: 0
    Grades have very little to do with intelligence, for the third fucking time.

    When I said that ESFJs and ESFPs haven't contributed anything to society, I didn't mean that they were worthless completely. I meant that, if it is true that "ESFPs can be the smartest people in the world", then where are all the ESFP mathematicians and physicists? Were they just "uninterested" in pursuing such subjects even though they were capable? No, the answer is this; ESFPs are by definition incapable of creative thinking. That's the point I was trying to make, not that they should be euthanized or anything like that.
    “Tolerance is the virtue of the man without convictions.” - G. K. Chesterton

  10. #660
    not to be trusted miss fortune's Avatar
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    your argument carries no weight if you can't prove that you're even working with viable data :rolli:

    if you would like for me to break this down to something simpler for you I can see what MS paint can handle as far as illustrations go
    “Oh, we're always alright. You remember that. We happen to other people.” -Terry Pratchett

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