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  1. #631
    not to be trusted miss fortune's Avatar
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    great, mr potato... now I'm thinking "what would you do for the love of buddha" to the tune of the klondike commercial... and the words don't even FIT right
    “Oh, we're always alright. You remember that. We happen to other people.” -Terry Pratchett

  2. #632
    Senior Member Perch420's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by shortnsweet View Post
    The description you posted states that ESFP's tend to avoid theoretical thinking, and don't like classroom learning which says nothing about inborn intellectual ability. The IQ test that a lot of people here tend to refer to is about ability to learn, adjust to different scenarios and problems, and have the ability to solve those problems. There's no "deep" philosophical thinking involved, only quick and simple problem solving. So, one can be a stereotypical ESFP- someone who hates school, scoffs at the idea of opening a philosophy or physics book, and just wants to just go to the beach all day long and still have those adjusting and problem solving abilities (greater than that of any stereotypical INTJ,). Smart ESFP's can dance cicles around schools, never show up for class, spend all night partying and still get straight A's.(Because if you're intelligent, you've probably found out how to do so. ) It's not an ESFP's perogative to hang around with books, they want to be around people and excitement. That's what the description is saying. You can keep your nose in a book all day but inborn intelligence is inborn intelligence, it's not changing. "ESFP's don't like to theorize so they are dumb" is just a wall to hide behind so that some of you can say... "Well I like to theorize! I like going to class. That's something I can do all day to avoid life experience. That must make me smart, unlike an ESFP." Think again. I'd like to see half of you sitting next to my empty seat in class, (or doodling and snoozing self) and take bets about who's going to get the better grade. I'm pretty sure that most of my former classmates would have still put their money on me.

    ESFP's hate school, books, and theorizing. Intelligence is a whole other thing.
    Intelligence is, again, abstract creative thinking, which the ESFP, by definition, is incapable of doing at an above-average level. You or any other ESFP that gets good grades isn't intelligent, they are simply capable of absorbing information and regurgitating it. Again, this is not intelligence, just rote memorization ability.
    “Tolerance is the virtue of the man without convictions.” - G. K. Chesterton

  3. #633
    not to be trusted miss fortune's Avatar
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    people have the ability to use functions other than their primary ones quite adequately... you're being rather narrow minded (which is showing NO creative and abstract thinking abilities in the least)

    “Oh, we're always alright. You remember that. We happen to other people.” -Terry Pratchett

  4. #634
    Senior Member Perch420's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Litvyak View Post
    So ESFPs can be intelligent by definition, yet it's impossible for an INTP to be stupid "by the same token" ?
    Besides of being incredibly shortsighted, your logical and reasoning ability sucks. Such non sequiturs aren't very appealing in an ESFP bash.
    An ESFP cannot be "intelligent". Re-read my post. I defined intelligence as the ability to think creatively and abstractly, which the ESFP is incapable of doing. Likewise, the INTP cannot be "stupid" in the sense that even if their "processing power" is slow like in the case of Karl Pilkington, they still think creatively and abstractly, unlike the ESFP, who is incapable of thinking in such a way, and are therefore, by definition, unintelligent.
    “Tolerance is the virtue of the man without convictions.” - G. K. Chesterton

  5. #635
    Emperor/Dictator kyuuei's Avatar
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    ^ You are a shining example that grades do not equate intelligence.

    If abstract, creative thinking is the center of intelligence, artists should be recognized as the most intelligent profession out there. Afterall, being a doctor isn't at all about memorizing and reciting gobs of straight facts and information. Being a lawyer has nothing to do with applying lots of memorized facts and cases after all.
    Kantgirl: Just say "I'm feminine and I'll punch anyone who says otherwise!"
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  6. #636
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    Quote Originally Posted by whatever View Post
    great, mr potato... now I'm thinking "what would you do for the love of buddha" to the tune of the klondike commercial... and the words don't even FIT right
    !!!!

  7. #637
    Senior Member Perch420's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by shortnsweet View Post
    One more scenario to hopefully destroy the thread.

    A picture of my daily life in school, (which mind you, I hate.)

    Given, I'm smarter than most people I know of all types- ESFP or not. My motivations and actions are still highly Se driven.

    It's a night before the final in whatever topic. We know that we can get out of class as soon as we're done the exam. There's something good on TV, I haven't studied or listened much in class. So, if it's a completely theoretical topic I just bullshit and educated guess my way through the test and ace it. No studying. A more scientific topic, a little more difficult. Read through all notes once. Skim the chapter. Two hours tops of memorizing and I go back to TV. Get up the next morning, go to class, skim notes one more time. Finish test first, (I often finish first) so I can go downtown on this beautiful day to get a latte.

    News flash, the entire plan was a giant act of someone with high intelligence without motivations to look intelligent. From the ability to learn the information or connect information and make educated guesses, to the ability to make studying as efficient as possible to get on to other things, to the ability to whip through a test quickly and still ace it. That's all pure, simple problem solving and learning quickly. While people take notice of this, it was not my intention, (or any ESFP's intention) to try to appear as if I'm any better than the rest in that department. I do happen to be better in that department, but the final motivation was to enjoy my latte on a beautiful bright sunny day. That's what it looks like to be a smart ESFP.
    Memorization is not the same as intelligence. You apparently are good at absorbing large amounts of information and recalling it efficiently. This is not the same as thinking creatively and abstractly.
    “Tolerance is the virtue of the man without convictions.” - G. K. Chesterton

  8. #638
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    Originally posted by Perch420
    An ESFP cannot be "intelligent". Re-read my post. I defined intelligence as the ability to think creatively and abstractly, which the ESFP is incapable of doing. Likewise, the INTP cannot be "stupid" in the sense that even if their "processing power" is slow like in the case of Karl Pilkington, they still think creatively and abstractly, unlike the ESFP, who is incapable of thinking in such a way, and are therefore, by definition, unintelligent.
    If this post wasn't so ignorant and offensive, I'd say that it's ridiculously laughable.

  9. #639
    Senior Member Perch420's Avatar
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    Well, being a doctor doesn't require a high IQ necessarily. I agree with that. What's your point?
    “Tolerance is the virtue of the man without convictions.” - G. K. Chesterton

  10. #640
    Emperor/Dictator kyuuei's Avatar
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    Savage: What is more incredible is his lack of appreciation for memorization. It is a difficult thing to memorize large sums of information accurately and be able to use it effectively. There are creative, abstract ways of memorizing gobs of information so that it can be effectively wielded and utilized in situations necessary.

    I wonder where narrow-mindedness ranks in his intelligence scale? It isn't in the definition he used, so I presume it is a sign of a lack of intelligence. Infact, everything besides creative, abstract thinking is a lack of intelligence according to him.. .. We have a lot of dumbasses.

    Perch: Necessarily? Do you know how difficult the MCAT testing is just to get into medical school? Sounds like you're not giving people the credit they are due. You tailor the definition of intelligence to whatever it is you please it to be, which destroys the word and is, itself, unintelligent. I suppose you're the only intelligent person you've ever come across.
    Kantgirl: Just say "I'm feminine and I'll punch anyone who says otherwise!"
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