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  1. #611
    Courage is immortality Valiant's Avatar
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    The "not relevant" card. How very typical.
    It only means that whatever I tried to say is beyond your supposedly intuitive and superior comprehension.

    Mightier than the tread of marching armies is the power of an idea whose time has come

  2. #612
    Listening Oaky's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Lex Talionis View Post
    One cannot "practice" intelligence. Either one is or is not intelligent. There is no middle ground.
    This translates into intelligence makes a personality type. It's not a credible assumption. It would imply that the higher state of critical thinking ability makes one more prone to acting a certain way in difference to their natural states. The practices and general thoughts of INT types tend to fall towards intellectual challenge and so they start to strengthen their intellect. But then you imply that that an ESFP who decides to stand out from their natural projection and practices the same practices an INT would, would not be able to reach their level or higher. This, you absolutely have no fact to back up nor can you depend on any generalisation or statistics to prove against. And so again, the assumption is not credible .

  3. #613
    Senior Member King sns's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Perch420 View Post
    Here is a type description of the ESFP.



    ESFPS are BY DEFINITION shallow thinkers. That's the DEFINITION of an ESFP, along with gregariousness and other things. That's their "con" just like an INTPs "con" is socialization. What's not to understand? "Intellectual" capacity, just like willpower, charisma, perceptive capacity, are all things that some personalities are good at and some bad at. Everyone has their strengths and weaknesses; for the ESFP it happens to be "deep" thinking and analysis, i.e. intelligence.
    The description you posted states that ESFP's tend to avoid theoretical thinking, and don't like classroom learning which says nothing about inborn intellectual ability. The IQ test that a lot of people here tend to refer to is about ability to learn, adjust to different scenarios and problems, and have the ability to solve those problems. There's no "deep" philosophical thinking involved, only quick and simple problem solving. So, one can be a stereotypical ESFP- someone who hates school, scoffs at the idea of opening a philosophy or physics book, and just wants to just go to the beach all day long and still have those adjusting and problem solving abilities (greater than that of any stereotypical INTJ,). Smart ESFP's can dance cicles around schools, never show up for class, spend all night partying and still get straight A's.(Because if you're intelligent, you've probably found out how to do so. ) It's not an ESFP's perogative to hang around with books, they want to be around people and excitement. That's what the description is saying. You can keep your nose in a book all day but inborn intelligence is inborn intelligence, it's not changing. "ESFP's don't like to theorize so they are dumb" is just a wall to hide behind so that some of you can say... "Well I like to theorize! I like going to class. That's something I can do all day to avoid life experience. That must make me smart, unlike an ESFP." Think again. I'd like to see half of you sitting next to my empty seat in class, (or doodling and snoozing self) and take bets about who's going to get the better grade. I'm pretty sure that most of my former classmates would have still put their money on me.

    ESFP's hate school, books, and theorizing. Intelligence is a whole other thing.
    06/13 10:51:03 five sounds: you!!!
    06/13 10:51:08 shortnsweet: no you!!
    06/13 10:51:12 shortnsweet: go do your things and my things too!
    06/13 10:51:23 five sounds: oh hell naw
    06/13 10:51:55 shortnsweet: !!!!
    06/13 10:51:57 shortnsweet: (cries)
    06/13 10:52:19 RiftsWRX: You two are like furbies stuck in a shoe box

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  4. #614
    not to be trusted miss fortune's Avatar
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    the supposedly smart people are making a VERY naive argument there... why on earth would you trust people that much?

    and why would you think that ability = interest? I was GOOD at business calc but I'm sure as hell NOT making a career out of it
    “Oh, we're always alright. You remember that. We happen to other people.” -Terry Pratchett

  5. #615
    No Cigar Litvyak's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Perch420 View Post
    Are all ESFPs stupid? No.
    By the same token, an INTP cannot be "stupid" in the traditional sense.
    So ESFPs can be intelligent by definition, yet it's impossible for an INTP to be stupid "by the same token" ?
    Besides of being incredibly shortsighted, your logical and reasoning ability sucks. Such non sequiturs aren't very appealing in an ESFP bash.

  6. #616
    Senior Member King sns's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Litvyak View Post
    So ESFPs can be intelligent by definition, yet it's impossible for an INTP to be stupid "by the same token" ?
    Besides of being incredibly shortsighted, your logical and reasoning ability sucks. Such non sequiturs aren't very appealing in an ESFP bash.
    This thread kind of reminds me of a philosophy class I took once... (Had to) A whole bunch of people really really into the class, reading every detail and note of every book and leaving their hands raised constantly. (Not to say anything of their intelligence, they just found it interesting, which is fine.) However, I'm sitting there skimming the book, reading a few pages of every chapter... Come test time I'm getting the A+ and the comments "I'm going to make an example of your test! Your thought process is amazing! How did you come up with this??" (They were essay/free writing tests.) While other people were pouting and going "That test was so hard. I got a C." THAT is problem solving, making connections, and adjusting to situations on my part. (Especially for someone who hates the topic and never wants to see those books ever again.)

    I don't normally come on here to brag about how smart I am, but this thread.... is. ridiculous. I will tell the stories if it helps my point. COME ON PEOPLE!! Meet some smart ESFP's and GET it already! It has NOTHING to do with personality type. You'll have to find yourself another quality to hide behind. Go start a thread that says, "ESFP's suck at strategic planning and war." I'll give that one to you. You can have that one. Don't make me break out anymore stories.
    06/13 10:51:03 five sounds: you!!!
    06/13 10:51:08 shortnsweet: no you!!
    06/13 10:51:12 shortnsweet: go do your things and my things too!
    06/13 10:51:23 five sounds: oh hell naw
    06/13 10:51:55 shortnsweet: !!!!
    06/13 10:51:57 shortnsweet: (cries)
    06/13 10:52:19 RiftsWRX: You two are like furbies stuck in a shoe box

    My Nohari
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  7. #617
    Senior Member King sns's Avatar
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    I am eagerly awaiting rebuttal on these posts. Please not: "Then you're probably an ENFP", or- "you're lying." OR, "then you're different from all the other ESFPs"... All of the above unacceptable answers.
    06/13 10:51:03 five sounds: you!!!
    06/13 10:51:08 shortnsweet: no you!!
    06/13 10:51:12 shortnsweet: go do your things and my things too!
    06/13 10:51:23 five sounds: oh hell naw
    06/13 10:51:55 shortnsweet: !!!!
    06/13 10:51:57 shortnsweet: (cries)
    06/13 10:52:19 RiftsWRX: You two are like furbies stuck in a shoe box

    My Nohari
    My Johari
    by sns.

  8. #618
    Whisky Old & Women Young Speed Gavroche's Avatar
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    Perch and Lex: INTx stupid myth.

    Oh, by the way, INTPs invented atomic bombs.
    ESFPs invented Funk, Heavy Metal and Rock'n Roll.
    Wich type is the most inteligent then?
    EsTP 6w7 Sx/Sp

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    E=60% S=55% T=70% P=80%

    "I don't believe in guilt, I only believe in living on impulses"

    "Stereotypes about personality and gender turn out to be fairly accurate: ... On the binary Myers-Briggs measure, the thinking-feeling breakdown is about 30/70 for women versus 60/40 for men." ~ Bryan Caplan

  9. #619
    Senior Member King sns's Avatar
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    Actually, this thread is rather flattering. Some people clearly want natural intelligence and try to get it any way they can. You guys have no way of knowing this, but being born smarter is just like being born with blue eyes or brown hair. You don't go around talking about it or even thinking about it unless somebody brings it up. Let me explain this in the theoretical and metaphorical language that you guys speak.

    I feel like I have brown hair sitting with some blondes and redheads who are saying.. "I have brown hair. My hair is browner!" Seriously, imitation is the sincerest form of flattery. But then when those people with different colored hair turn to me and say, "You can't possibly have brown hair, because you have blue eyes. It just doesn't work that way, unfortunate little you." And then continue on and on and on and on. Eventually, I'm going to pipe up and say, "You guys are ludacris! Brown hair has nothing to do with eye color!!"
    06/13 10:51:03 five sounds: you!!!
    06/13 10:51:08 shortnsweet: no you!!
    06/13 10:51:12 shortnsweet: go do your things and my things too!
    06/13 10:51:23 five sounds: oh hell naw
    06/13 10:51:55 shortnsweet: !!!!
    06/13 10:51:57 shortnsweet: (cries)
    06/13 10:52:19 RiftsWRX: You two are like furbies stuck in a shoe box

    My Nohari
    My Johari
    by sns.

  10. #620
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    Quote Originally Posted by shortnsweet View Post
    Actually, this thread is rather flattering. Some people clearly want natural intelligence and try to get it any way they can. You guys have no way of knowing this, but being born smarter is just like being born with blue eyes or brown hair. You don't go around talking about it or even thinking about it unless somebody brings it up. Let me explain this in the theoretical and metaphorical language that you guys speak.

    I feel like I have brown hair sitting with some blondes and redheads who are saying.. "I have brown hair. My hair is browner!" Seriously, imitation is the sincerest form of flattery. But then when those people with different colored hair turn to me and say, "You can't possibly have brown hair, because you have blue eyes. It just doesn't work that way, unfortunate little you." And then continue on and on and on and on. Eventually, I'm going to pipe up and say, "You guys are ludacris! Brown hair has nothing to do with eye color!!"
    this^. btw i just found out im an esfp, not isfp, and im actually attending college right now on an entirely academic scholarship. back when i was a computer science major (i switched because it was too boring) i used to consistently get the highest grades in my class and i skipped school all the time. i almost became a math major because its my best subject, but decided not to because my math classes were becoming so theoretical that i, once again, got bored with it. now i'm thinking of doing something in the medical field

    normally i wouldn't ever make a post like this either because talking about how smart you are is arrogant and ridiculous, but so is this thread, so i thought i'd chime in and support my smart esfp brethren.

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