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  1. #591
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    I have not read the last several pages just so everyone knows,

    ESFP uses Se, which is not macho party animal funtion, but the function that realizes the immedaite present world around them and actively engages in it. Fi is not emotional nonsense, it is judging according to firmly held personal values. Niether Se nor Fi is stupid when they are defined correctly, it's just that some peope distort the meanings of them and assume that you have to be completely logical and objective to be smart, which ain't true.

  2. #592
    Whisky Old & Women Young Speed Gavroche's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Perch420 View Post
    What you're saying shows a lack of knowledge of MBTI. All types can use all the functions; it's their preference which determines type. An ESFP medical student uses Si when he/she memorizes information, yes? An ISTJ uses Fe at a family reunion, yes? My functions, in order of strength, are Ti and Ni tied, Ne and Fi tied, Fe and Te tied, Si and Se tied. Strength does not equal preference.
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  3. #593
    Senior Member Lex Talionis's Avatar
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    I believe that the myth of intelligent ESFPs has been thoroughly refuted in this thread, not in small part due to the analysis provided by Yours truly.
    "Death is nothing, but to live defeated and inglorious is to die daily."
    —Bonaparte

  4. #594
    Senior Member Robopop's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Lex Talionis View Post
    I believe that the myth of intelligent ESFPs has been thoroughly refuted in this thread, not in small part due to the analysis provided by Yours truly.
    Don't worry, it's all in your mind.
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  5. #595
    Courage is immortality Valiant's Avatar
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    Dude, the few ESFPs I know can be unexpectedly intelligent underneath that facade they have going.
    It's always kind of shocking to see it come off when they get serious. You'd think that someone that uppity and fun would be a total airhead.
    Take for instance this supposedly stupid but beautiful/nice girl I know. She's got that... Stupid look. Plastic boobs, everything.
    Anyway, gives the impression that she's really out there. Not a shred of intelligence in that head.
    Took me a few years to get a glimpse of it, but this girl is actually an avid reader, politically interested and could discuss almost anything.
    That's so INCREDIBLY sneaky. Almost like Claudius, pretending to be a fool for years.
    Same for one of my best friends. He's so good at some stuff that it hurts.
    Sure, not much of a scholar, more intelligent in that Barney fashion.

    No, only one of the ESFPs I know is really fucking stupid less gifted.
    To be honest, in proportion to that, I know more INTJs who are total reta... Less gifted.

    Mightier than the tread of marching armies is the power of an idea whose time has come

  6. #596
    Senior Member Perch420's Avatar
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    ESFPs, by definition, cannot be "intelligent", if we go with the traditional definition of "intelligence"; creative problem solving and analytical reasoning. If they are, but don't "show it", then they're not an ESFP at all, just an N masquerading as an S for some reason or another. MBTI doesn't make any revelations and it doesn't come to conclusions independent from what you've inputted to the test yourself. I'm not "generalizing" any more than someone is "generalizing" that everyone who answered "Yes" to "I am of African heritage" has black skin.

    Are all ESFPs stupid? No. Are most? Probably. An ESFP, meaning an actual ESFP, not an N pretending to be or mistyped as an S, in higher education is there only because of their ability to memorize and regurgitate facts; not because of creative or original thinking. Again, I'm not generalizing; the DEFINITION of an ESFP is someone who is not interested in pursuing the "truth" of the matter and is content to party and dance. Just like an INTP is someone who is uninterested in small talk and social interaction, etc etc etc. The problem is that intelligence is so valued in our society, people don't want to acknowledge the fact that personality has more to do with intelligence than any other factor.

    By the same token, an INTP cannot be "stupid" in the traditional sense. They may be disconnected from reality, paranoid, delusional, etc, but the DEFINITION of an INTP is someone who is interested in theoretical possibilities, knowledge, and abstract thinking (oversimplifying, obviously, but you get the point). Karl Pilkington is an INTP with a below average IQ, but he is still more intelligent than an ESFP with an IQ of 120 because of the way he arrives at his conclusions vs. the ESFP; the INTP forms abstract connections between concepts and uses logic to arrive at some sort of a result. The ESFP does what he does because of, again, rote memorization and regurgitation.
    “Tolerance is the virtue of the man without convictions.” - G. K. Chesterton

  7. #597
    Tier 1 Member LunaLuminosity's Avatar
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    ^ You were making sense before, but now you've lost me.

    You seem to be mixing up personality preferences and intellectual capacities, among some other misunderstandings.

  8. #598
    Senior Member Perch420's Avatar
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    Here is a type description of the ESFP.

    The ESFP under a great deal of stress gets overwhelmed with negatives thoughts and possibilities. As an optimistic individual who lives in the world of possibilities, negative possibilities do not sit well with them. In an effort to combat these thoughts, they're likely to come up with simple, global statements to explain away the problem. These simplistic explanations may or may not truly get to the nature of the issue, but they serve the ESFP well by allowing them to get over it.

    ESFPs are likely to be very practical, although they hate structure and routine. They like to "go with the flow", trusting in their ability to improvise in any situation presented to them. They learn best with "hands-on" experience, rather than by studying a book. They're uncomfortable with theory. If an ESFP hasn't developed their intuitive side, they may tend to avoid situations which involve a lot of theoretical thinking, or which are complex and ambiguous. For this reason, an ESFP may have difficulty in school. On the other hand, the ESFP does extremely well in situations where they're allowed to learn by interacting with others, or in which they "learn by doing".
    ESFPS are BY DEFINITION shallow thinkers. That's the DEFINITION of an ESFP, along with gregariousness and other things. That's their "con" just like an INTPs "con" is socialization. What's not to understand? "Intellectual" capacity, just like willpower, charisma, perceptive capacity, are all things that some personalities are good at and some bad at. Everyone has their strengths and weaknesses; for the ESFP it happens to be "deep" thinking and analysis, i.e. intelligence.
    “Tolerance is the virtue of the man without convictions.” - G. K. Chesterton

  9. #599
    Tier 1 Member LunaLuminosity's Avatar
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    The Myers-Briggs Type Indicator (MBTI) assessment is a psychometric questionnaire designed to measure psychological preferences in how people perceive the world and make decisions.
    Type is about personality preferences, not strengths and weaknesses. That is what what typology is about BY DEFINITION.


  10. #600
    Emperor/Dictator kyuuei's Avatar
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