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  1. #521
    Senior Member Tabula's Avatar
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    My little sister is as ESFP as one could possibly be ...
    She knows in which ways to conduct herself to create exactly the effect she is after, or to get exactly what she wants, and she knows that people often underestimate her - she just enjoys proving them all wrong.

    When she's "on" she's ON and when she's not, fuck everyone and what they think. She's smart and she knows it, and she will choose who, when, and in which context that becomes known. She gets along with everyone for this reason, and can do just about anything she wants to do. Teachers loved her, kids loved her, adults, everyone.

    This is something I've seen in my EstP brother also, and a few SP friends I have had over the years. It is one of the things I admire most about them.

    I think the "dumb" perception might have more to do with the kind of relationship you have to them, the setting, and who you happen to be with than for them truly being "dumb." You might just not be privileged enough, or around them in varied enough sorts of situations to see the other sides of them.

    The way my sister says things, sometimes, could give the impression of her being "ditzy" or "shallow." She's bouncy, is really into appearance, and loves to go out with friends all the time. When she's out at a party (which she is a lot of the time) she's there to have fun, not to talk about literature. All you have to do to know she is not truly dumb, ditzy, or shallow, is to change your setting to a museum and listen to her speak...

  2. #522
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    IQ is a measure of abstract problem-solving skills. That INTs tend to have developed these skills more than ESFs shouldn't surprise anyone. It is NOT a measure of intelligence, which is the general ability to learn.

  3. #523
    No Cigar Litvyak's Avatar
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    ESFPs don't start a whinefest if they're not the cleverestest while discussing an intellectual topic like most INTx's I know.
    They also have other priorities in life than constantly absorbing useless shit like indifferent drones.

    I actually consider them to be more in touch with reality and closer to a natural state of self-appreciation, and thus, more 'intelligent' in many ways.

  4. #524
    Member Pand0ra's Avatar
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    This made me laugh. I only know one ESFP and he is not known for being bright. It's not that he doesn't have a brain, he just doesn't seem to use it as required. But then I am not stupid enough myself to think this is the same for all ESFPs. It makes sense that those characters fit into that personality type, but in my view I don't think it's a dig at the type..........

  5. #525
    Senior Member King sns's Avatar
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    I've always thought of ability to solve abstract problems a natural talent rather than an acquired skill. Also, isn't critical thinking and ability to solve problems a key measure of intelligence? If not, what is? (I know there are other ways to measure it/ and different forms of intelligence.. BUT.....this is definitely key in my book.) It is not type related.

    (This was in response to Offog.)
    06/13 10:51:03 five sounds: you!!!
    06/13 10:51:08 shortnsweet: no you!!
    06/13 10:51:12 shortnsweet: go do your things and my things too!
    06/13 10:51:23 five sounds: oh hell naw
    06/13 10:51:55 shortnsweet: !!!!
    06/13 10:51:57 shortnsweet: (cries)
    06/13 10:52:19 RiftsWRX: You two are like furbies stuck in a shoe box

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  6. #526
    No Cigar Litvyak's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Pand0ra View Post
    he just doesn't seem to use it as required.
    Required by whom? You? The academic community? People have a brain to use it as they please.
    Free thinkers are usually not the ones who sit in a half lit office trying to figure shit out, by my definition.

  7. #527
    Senior Member ColonelGadaafi's Avatar
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    I think people who think that personality is causitive of low intelligence, have low reasoning abilities= low intelligence. (see how easy that was).
    "Where can you flee? What road will you use to escape us? Our horses are swift, our arrows sharp, our swords like thunderbolts, our hearts as hard as the mountains, our soldiers as numerous as the sand. Fortresses will not detain us, nor arms stop us. Your prayers to God will not avail against us. We are not moved by tears nor touched by lamentations."

  8. #528
    Member Pand0ra's Avatar
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    I meant 'as required' to be happy. He gets himself into trouble. He makes himself unhappy by dating girls who hurt him, over and over. Oh and he spends all his money on drugs. Lovely guy, just doesn't think so much. But that is irrelevant really and nothing to do with the point I was trying to make. In fact, I'm not sure I was even trying to make a point, more thinking....freely...

  9. #529
    Member Pand0ra's Avatar
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    Doesn't have anything much to do with ESFPs btw, as I only know one (outside of fiction!) so couldn't possibly know whether this claim of stupidity is true. However I would agree that you can NEVER judge intelligence *based* on personality type. Maybe someone should start an 'Are all INTJs evil' thread..............?

  10. #530
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    Quote Originally Posted by shortnsweet View Post
    I've always thought of ability to solve abstract problems a natural talent rather than an acquired skill. Also, isn't critical thinking and ability to solve problems a key measure of intelligence? If not, what is? (I know there are other ways to measure it/ and different forms of intelligence.. BUT.....this is definitely key in my book.) It is not type related.
    You can improve your abstract problem-solving abilities with practice. That's a pretty good indicator that you're dealing with a skill set.

    Intelligence is impossible to measure directly, and IQ tests make a very problematic substitute.

    For those who are interested -- some further reading.

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