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  1. #471
    Senior Member Robopop's Avatar
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    Lex is just cherry picking the information that supports his prejudice views and ignoring information that goes against it. He is acting like a big ass 8 year old that is incapable of objectivity.

    He still thinks MBTI is a proven science and he can make ridiculous sweeping generalizations about people. Lex needs to seriously grow up, I would not expect this even from a 20 year old.

  2. #472
    Writing... Tamske's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Lex Talionis View Post
    Unless you are born an INTJ, or at the very least born to be predisposed to INTJ thinking, it is an impossibility, I'm afraid. You will forever be relegated to your second-rate position.
    But there I beg to differ. While there is probably a correlation between INTJ and intelligence, individual cases may be different. That's always the case with statistics.

    With correlation I mean: if you take all INTJ types and eg. (to keep to the original topic) all ESFP types, probably there will be a higher percentage of INTJs possessing the "intelligent" talent. But this is neither a law nor a moral thing. There are stupid INTJs. Some ESFPs are smarter than some INTJs.

    And *some* INTJs need to get their Fe out from the deep-freezer. It's possible to discuss intelligence without calling anybody second-rate.
    The narrow definition of intelligence is a two-edged sword, Lex. You may pride yourself on possessing that talent (I would dare to do that, too); but if you get your pride only from being intelligent in the narrow sense of the word, you'll have a narrow base for your pride. Place intelligence among the other talents, call the other talents by their right name, and respect them all.
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  3. #473
    Yeah, I can fly. Aleksei's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Tamske View Post
    But there I beg to differ. While there is probably a correlation between INTJ and intelligence, individual cases may be different. That's always the case with statistics.

    With correlation I mean: if you take all INTJ types and eg. (to keep to the original topic) all ESFP types, probably there will be a higher percentage of INTJs possessing the "intelligent" talent. But this is neither a law nor a moral thing. There are stupid INTJs. Some ESFPs are smarter than some INTJs.
    This is more or less exactly my argument since the very beginning. It is a statistical reality that Ns have higher IQs than SJs who in turn have higher IQs than SPs as a group, but individuals within that group may have higher IQs than that (Clinton: ESFP). being part of a given type doesn't diminish (or raise) your individual worth.

    So Lex is being as retarded as his opponents (or more), which is why I want nothing to do with this thread.
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  4. #474
    not to be trusted miss fortune's Avatar
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    :rolli: but the stats on an inexact theory are nothing to take as accurate! Everyone lies! that's why half the board ends up changing their type after spending a few months here!

    really... I wish that ptgatsby was here to put some serious nerdiness behind the stats since my approach is too ExxP-ish for some people (aka too "stupid")

    and jag... 20 is too old to be that much of an idiot... at least I didn't pull out the line "yeah? you think I'm stupid? why don't you say it to my face, fucker?!"

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  5. #475
    Yeah, I can fly. Aleksei's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by whatever View Post
    :rolli: but the stats on an inexact theory are nothing to take as accurate! Everyone lies! that's why half the board ends up changing their type after spending a few months here!
    That argument doesn't stand up to scrutiny, unless people are pretending to have a lower IQ than they do, or pretending to be Sensors when they're really intuitives. The opposite trend would yield the conclusion that either Intuitives are more common than they actually are, or higher Sensing scores, and we wouldn't be having this discussion.

    Not that it matters, because studies on the matter don't rely on self-reporting. They were made on test groups based on psychologist-administered examinations, on people who most likely do not know enough about typology to not like the idea of Sensing (being concrete and detail-oriented is innocent enough). If I did a type-IQ study based on online IQ test and self-reported type, then you could accuse me of being unscientific.
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  6. #476
    not to be trusted miss fortune's Avatar
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    explain this?

    it makes perfect sense- I'd say most of the population is mistyped... typing is too highly subjective to make an accurate objective study of... unless you were making a study on the manner in which people perceive themselves (which does not equal the way that the person actually thinks or behaves)
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  7. #477
    Senior Member Ming's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Lex Talionis View Post
    You haven't proven anything, much less shown me why it wouldn't work outside of your subjective perception. What's annoying is that you'll go around thinking that you've actually "defeated" me or made a valid point.

    Whatever, it hardly matters. The fact of the matter is that the dimwitted types are now offended, and any further attempts at reasonable debate are now impossible. Robopop's drivel is not even worth responding to.

    That being said, I withdraw from this ludicrous thread.
    But Lex, I've fallen in love with you! What should I do?

    *Oh my withering heart cries for every moment of your beautiful and logical words; oh my pretty, you should fall in this brilliant bath of sunshine. Oh let me embrace thee!*

  8. #478
    Yeah, I can fly. Aleksei's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by whatever View Post
    explain this?
    It's simple: Your theory yields the opposite result of what you're trying to argue.

    Before I get into more detail, let's lay some basic groundwork, just to be sure we're on the same page. You are assuming that Sensors are more likely to be mistyped as Intuitives than the other way around, correct?
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  9. #479
    not to be trusted miss fortune's Avatar
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    for a definition of intelligence, from Mainstream Science on Intelligence

    A very general mental capability that, among other things, involves the ability to reason, plan, solve problems, think abstractly, comprehend complex ideas, learn quickly and learn from experience. It is not merely book learning, a narrow academic skill, or test-taking smarts. Rather, it reflects a broader and deeper capability for comprehending our surroundings — “catching on”, “making sense” of things, or “figuring out” what to do.

    This definition doesn't solely mean that INTJs, or Ns either, are more intelligent or have the functions for higher intelligence... especially the parts about learning from experience and comprehending one's surroundings (especially with being as oblivious to ones surroundings as plenty of Ns on the board complain about being!)... and an ESFP learns from experience MUCH more frequently than the stereotypical INTJ

    Most of what is discussed above is related to the strength and ability to use Ti and Te properly... and thinking abstractly can be done by either a Sensor or Intuitive- even though SOME intuitives like to think otherwise :rolli: We all have sensing and intuitive capabilities (your inferior is Se, I beleive... which means that it IS a part of your personality!)... just like being able to take in the info from your surroundings and analyze it is a Se trait, and learning from experience falls heavily into the category of the Si database storing past experiences for future use... anyone is capable of working on their lesser used functions to become a more complete person (THAT INCLUDES FE AS WELL!!!)... meaning- to be able to fully cover the qualities needed for intelligence, one must develop their Sensing AND Intuition both... which goes back to my theory that balance is awesome
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  10. #480
    not to be trusted miss fortune's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Aleksei View Post
    It's simple: Your theory yields the opposite result of what you're trying to argue.

    Before I get into more detail, let's lay some basic groundwork, just to be sure we're on the same page. You are assuming that Sensors are more likely to be mistyped as Intuitives than the other way around, correct?
    not necissarily- there's actually a thread around here somewhere as people testing as Sensors because those traits are more widely valued in their communities (i.e. black women testing as ESFJ instead of as an N because those are the GOOD traits)

    The younger people who tend to feel like outsiders or "special" are more likely to test as N because that explains it all to them... not the fact that they're younger and younger people rarely feel like they fit into society properly
    “Oh, we're always alright. You remember that. We happen to other people.” -Terry Pratchett

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