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  1. #431
    Senior Member Robopop's Avatar
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    I don't even think Lex really cares about the reliability of the "stats". He's only looking for information that agrees with his biased thinking. I can't believe how utterly one-sided his thinking is, is he really epitome of someone who is fair, objective and makes well informed decisions.

    There indeed is a difference between someone's surface behaviour and their true cognitive abilities. And he makes the distinction between the true cognitive abilities of a person and their behaviour, or the way they express their intelligence. He added on a perosn's outward behaviour to his definition of intelligence and this is a faulty way to judge a person's intelligence. Einstein indeed did do ALOT of things that seemed to make no sense and he actively hated the strict rote learning of the german education system. He was very absent-minded and that can look pretty stupid to alot people, but when we look at his body of work, it is very clear he was a genius.

  2. #432
    not to be trusted miss fortune's Avatar
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    yes... narrow thinking and ignoring blatant facts rarely makes a case for one's type
    “Oh, we're always alright. You remember that. We happen to other people.” -Terry Pratchett

  3. #433
    Senior Member Robopop's Avatar
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    Lex is making value judgements about people's personalities that has little to do with their cognitive abilities. Just because someone's interests is considered less valuable by you does not mean they have less cognitive ability. And the "evidence" you use from IQ test correlating with MBTI types is dubious and incomplete at best.

    Physicist Richard Feynman's reported IQ was 125, now that is above average but that is no where near genius IQ. But would you consider him less intelligent than alot of mensa members with IQs much higher than his IQ? He did great work in quantum physics and predicted nanotechnology in the 1950s, but yet most of those mensa members could not touch his genius with his contributions to physics. And oh yeah, his outward behaviour probalby would not be consider intelligent by you, he was known to be a free spirited nonconformist, much like how an ESFP might behave. He himself thought psychometric testing was dubious as he had good reason to think.

    I think the only way to truly even understand what intelligence is would be through neuroscience, not through faulty psychometric testing and the same goes for personality as well. Lex, the evidence for most of your arguments goes from incomplete to dubious to laughable. How can you so quickly draw conclusions based on incomplete data and understanding? And look, I am good at alot of tasks but prefer not to do them, there is a difference between your true abilities and what you prefer. How many times do people on this forum have to explain this to you.

    Lex, the best thing for you to do is keep your mind open to new information and not just come so quickly to very incomplete decisions. Your prejudice is really outlandish!

  4. #434
    Senior Member King sns's Avatar
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    Lex could actually be much brighter than we think. Trying to get attention or has a really twisted sense of humor and just wants to see how far we'll go with this.

    Or maybe he just got rejected by some ESFP he asked to the prom. Or made fun of him and hurt his feelings.
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  5. #435
    Senior Member Robopop's Avatar
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    I really hope he does not believe the utter nonsense he is saying on this thread, that would be very sad indeed.

  6. #436
    Senior Member KDude's Avatar
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    I think he's intelligent.

    But he's also a pussy. So.. meh.

  7. #437
    Senior Member King sns's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Robopop View Post
    I really hope he does not believe the utter nonsense he is saying on this thread, that would be very sad indeed.
    Would it really matter?
    This thread is very entertaining.

    He may have some ungodly mole or bad teeth, or is very obese or smells and overcompensates by trying to sound intelligent and saying that people around him are simpletons and ESFP's are stupid. Since we are generally a happy, carefree bunch, we may be a nice internet target for him. That's the beauty of the internet.

    I could be wrong. He could be a very handsome, intimidating, and overall intelligent fellow from high society who genuinely knows some very retarded ESFP's and would like to air his grievances in a safe and anonymous environment.

    Either way, I'm sure he's got his reasons for his posts.
    06/13 10:51:03 five sounds: you!!!
    06/13 10:51:08 shortnsweet: no you!!
    06/13 10:51:12 shortnsweet: go do your things and my things too!
    06/13 10:51:23 five sounds: oh hell naw
    06/13 10:51:55 shortnsweet: !!!!
    06/13 10:51:57 shortnsweet: (cries)
    06/13 10:52:19 RiftsWRX: You two are like furbies stuck in a shoe box

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  8. #438
    Yeah, I can fly. Aleksei's Avatar
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    Jesus Christ this thread is horrible.
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  9. #439
    Senior Member Robopop's Avatar
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    This thread illustrates blatant prejudice and psuedoscience 101.
    There are a few cretins crawling around here trying to use MBTI for purposes other than what it was meant for.

  10. #440
    Senior Member Lex Talionis's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by whatever View Post
    to the blue- please explain, in stats speak, why you would NOT think that the margin of error on a self reporting survey over an ambiguous subject involving the test taker evaluating themselves honestly would NOT have a high margin of error? Do you really think that most people have the self knowlege and honesty to be RIGHT? Plus, the basic 4 letter test is very flawed and often gives people the wrong result... please say that you understand THAT?!!
    Well, first of all, your use of the term "margin of error" is ambiguous in and of itself. Statistically speaking, a margin of error is simply the likelihood that a parameter will not fall within the confidence interval, which has little practical application to our discussion, especially considering that we have no sample. To further expand on margin of error, it is a value that is given to a probability sample to be used in the extrapolation of data to a greater portion of the population. None of this is relevant to the discussion, not least of which because, again, there is no sample. Not that a statistical survey is necessary to begin with, as we are only focusing on correlation, and not to acquire quantitative information about a given population.

    Whether or not the test itself gives an accurate result is not my concern, since this can be mitigated by proper testing techniques, along with calibration experiments. What I am discussing is the archetypes of the given types, and their reflection in the real world.

    It is ridiculous to think that type cannot be matched with intelligence (in this case, we could use IQ as a proxy for intelligence) simply because of some unsubstantiated basis for response bias in a test that carries little social stigma and would therefore be expected to entail relatively minor quantities of it. Could it be that, instead of selecting a particular type because people want it, they select it because it reflects their own natures, and they prefer it for this very reason? Any correlation between personality types and intelligence is significant, provided that the standard deviation isn't absurdly high (and no evidence exists that it is), since it establishes, for whatever reason, that a hierarchy of intelligence exists amongst personality types.

    I realize that the greater population is constituted of little more than ignorant dimwits, but the test is relatively straightforward and only asks that you select the answer that best describes you. On top of this, the test can be simplified and broadened, along with being professionally administered, all of which could mitigate response bias. Of course, this would cost a sizable amount, so it is out of the question for me to conduct on such a scale.

    and there's a difference between having a "smart person personality" and actually BEING smart :rolli:
    Not really. "Smart person" personalities are considered smart for the very reason that they are. People associate them with intelligence because of the very fact that they meet the standard definition of "intelligence."

    It is not a coincidence that the greatest scientists and philosophers in history have exhibited the personality traits of INTJs and INTPs. The clownish "genius" is a myth, or at the very least, a rarity on the fringes of the bell curve. I am afraid that if one scours the history books, he will not find many representations of ESTPs amongst the Great; be it military geniuses, political geniuses, mathematical/scientific geniuses, or even artistic geniuses.

    You'd probably assume that I am kind of dumb if you met me- I laugh a lot, I love bad jokes, dumb movies and low society... I read tabloids in the checkout line and comment on them to other shoppers and can be entertained for hours with a bottle of bubble solution. I'm also a verifiable genius who got accepted to Harvard and can complete the NY Times Sunday Crossword in less than 8 minutes... and there's no way in hell that I'm an INTJ
    And I can solve a Rubik's Cube in under two minutes. What is your point?

    I judge you by how well you establish and present your arguments, along with your ability to infer logically, which I have yet to see displayed from somebody who claims to be a "verifiable genius." I apologize, but once again, history doesn't furnish us with examples of "geniuses" who talked like "valley girls" and who "can be entertained for hours with a bottle of bubble solution."

    as my ISTJ says "there doesn't appear to be a connection in personality and intelligence- most geniuses are complete and total idiots... just look at you!"
    More anecdotal evidence. If we are to discuss statistics, then you must remember that we are always referring to averages. The average INTJ will be more intelligent than the average ESTP. Group aggregates, and not individual variables. As always, exceptions prove the rule.

    to use the definition of personality that we usually threw around in psych and social psych, personality is the organized pattern of behavioral characteristics of the individual. Unfortunatly, behavior doesn't necissarily reflect a person's cognitive abilities- an IxxJ will ACT more prudently than an ExxP, but that's a result of being cautious and semi-paranoid, not a result of actual intelligence. If we judged intelligence by a person's behavior Einstein would be a complete idiot!
    That's nonsense. Einstein was far from being the buffoon that he is made out to be by those who wish to associate their idiotic behavior with a genius. He was most certainly introverted and spent most of his time alone, pondering over his theories. The notion of Einstein as an "eccentric" originated in the fact that he did not assimilate well (or rather, he was often rejected) to the established intellectual institutions, particularly in Germany, and did not bother to don the "professional" appearance of the contemporary intelligentsia. He was certainly not the clown that you would make him out to be.

    In other words, you're making a mistake of judging intelligence by a person's behavioral characteristics AND you're making a mistake by beleiving in a flawed study and bad research
    Flawed study and bad research? Proof? Besides, no study that I have linked to was badly conceived.

    Behaviour is almost certainly a reflection of intelligence, and certainly a reflection of accomplishment. IQ has been correlated with both criminality and social achievement. I only take this one step further and link personality with IQ.

    In the end, there are reasons why ESFPs are typically portrayed as idiots: because their type is, by nature, idiotic.
    "Death is nothing, but to live defeated and inglorious is to die daily."
    —Bonaparte

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