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  1. #111
    veteran attention whore Jeffster's Avatar
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    Lex, way to use your first post to bash millions of people simultaneously! We can only hope to be further enlightened by your keen insights on why a bunch of people you don't know suck!
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  2. #112
    Senior Member Lex Talionis's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Evan View Post
    But yeah...I don't think most types are significantly correlated to intelligence, except maybe IxTxs being predisposed towards thinking more in a way that makes them better on IQ tests. Any statistics anyone can use in response to this can be thrown out as you never really know if people are typed correctly.
    Why shouldn't statistics correlating personality type to intelligence be valid? It makes perfect sense, and if a large enough sample is tested (which, over the years, is undoubted), then the unfounded conjecture that "you never know if people are typed correctly" becomes almost insignificant.

    As it stands, the four types that have consistently been linked with higher IQ per population are, in the order as follows: INTJs, INTPs, (big surprise that the two most rational thinkers would score the highest, eh? ), INFJs, and INFPs (both are introverted intuits; INFJs have Ti as a tertiary function and use logic to support their idealistic nature, while INFPs are usually concerned about problems relating to humanity which requires some form of abstract reasoning, however diluted with feeling.) Now of course, IQ is only the technical part of intelligence, and it doesn't say much about how we use our intelligence in the real world, that is something personality does, so the fact that INFJs and INFPs score high on IQ tests does not necessarily mean that on average they are more mentally capable than ENTJs and ENTPs, but that's beside the point.

    Quote Originally Posted by Jeffster View Post
    Lex, way to use your first post to bash millions of people simultaneously! We can only hope to be further enlightened by your keen insights on why a bunch of people you don't know suck!
    Eh, are you somehow implying that because I have not personally met every single ESFP, I cannot judge them based on their general characteristics as described both by Myer-Briggs and supported by my real life observation? I'm afraid that with your logic, the entire science of statistical analysis would become obsolete.

  3. #113
    Shaman BlackCat's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Lex Talionis View Post
    Why shouldn't statistics correlating personality type to intelligence be valid? It makes perfect sense, and if a large enough sample is tested (which, over the years, is undoubted), then the unfounded conjecture that "you never know if people are typed correctly" becomes almost insignificant.
    But here is the question... what KIND of intelligence? Every type fits some niche in the world, every type serves a purpose. There are a lot of sorts of intelligence, so I would say that if there were statistics that were made from a huge sample of people who were typed correctly about the many kinds of intelligences, then you'd be onto something useful. But then someone would abuse this and only hire certain positions based on type and it would get messy.

    It should just be avoided.
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  4. #114
    Senior Member Lex Talionis's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by BlackCat View Post
    But here is the question... what KIND of intelligence? Every type fits some niche in the world, every type serves a purpose. There are a lot of sorts of intelligence, so I would say that if there were statistics that were made from a huge sample of people who were typed correctly about the many kinds of intelligences, then you'd be onto something useful. But then someone would abuse this and only hire certain positions based on type and it would get messy.

    It should just be avoided.
    I don't believe that there are many different "types" of intelligences. Intelligence to me, in a simple and concise definition is the ability to solve problems, as well as the ability to deduct and infer logical conclusions based on given knowledge in a manner that is objective and precise. How that ability manifests itself in terms of its impact on different aspects of society is entirely based on the individual(s) in question and the given situation(s) they find themselves in.

    Every other type of "intelligence" is either subjective in construction, or clearly something taught as opposed to solved by one's own mental ability. Therefore, using my definition of intelligence, which is pretty much the standard in the field of psychometrics, it is clear that one needs to have both the innate processing power (IQ), as well as the ability to use that power effectively (personality.) From there, it is entirely reasonable to correlate intelligence with the different personality types, regardless of raw IQ amongst individuals of any one type.

  5. #115
    Shaman BlackCat's Avatar
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    Well why worry? Just judge someone based on how they are when you meet them, no need to be so broad. You don't need to be prepared.
    () 9w8-3w4-7w6 tritype.

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  6. #116
    Priestess Of Syrinx Katsuni's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jeffster View Post
    Lex, way to use your first post to bash millions of people simultaneously! We can only hope to be further enlightened by your keen insights on why a bunch of people you don't know suck!
    Oh leave him alone. He's an INTJ; he thinks things through logically... but doesn't bother to base his insights on actual external stimuli (like actual people, just his own interpretation of them), and is highly judgemental, unable to see things from other's perspectives.

    He's doomed to be socially inept to the end of his days, and stick to strict rules that're abstract and don't actually have any baring in sense, and use all his intelligence to 'proove' his bizzare concepts, ignoring anything that doesn't match his predisposed ideas.


    This is an example of whot happens when yeu use a type too harshly, and don't consider the rammifications of such, or that individuals exist outside of such. Being smart has nothing to do with personality type at all. personality type just implies how yeu're more likely to use that intelligence, and in which ways yeu're naturally adept to applying it.

    That being said, the ESFP can be very intelligent on an individual level, regardless of whot Lex thinks.

    However, he has a point, that virtually all of them, will tend to display it very poorly. When they use their intelligence, though they may be capable of being booksmart, it'll be more based on being a sensor; massive capacity to suck up raw data and memorize it... this doesn't really do much for them though because they can't really apply it all that well in a clinical setting usually.

    Moreso, they'll be prone to doing some rather foolhardy things without thinking it through, and be far more interested in social stuff, except they won't have the attention span to really bother getting deeply involved.

    Most likely though, they will be capable of using any intelligence they have to incredible degree when applying it to social situations. Many famous actors, singers, and so on have been known for this, because they can appeal to the shallow masses with incredable ease at a distance.

    This doesn't make them stupid, it just means they apply their intelligence more adeptly in certain situations and certain ways. It may not be traditionally considered 'normal intelligence' though, but it's still a form of intelligence.

    That being said, a programmer's skills aren't really known for being a thinking profession; it's more a matter of memorization and applying such with great detail in repetitive fashion. The S of the ESFP fits perfectly here, so it is a partial preferance for them.

    The cognitive functions also have some use towards these goals.

    But anyways, certain types of things can be done by the ESFP's better than others. Those that take their strengths and run with them, do very well. Those that're intelligent can apply them towards those strengths.

    That being said, however, an ESFP is not innately adept at certain tasks, and no matter how intelligent they may be, they just won't really think in the manner which naturally lends itself to that task. Most of these tasks they generally are less adept at are the "traditionally intellectual" type thinking, that an NT is more well known for.

    This isn't a bad thing, just a different application of intelligence. Lex is just being biased on his definition of "intelligence", seeing only the singular method of application, and decreeing his way be the right and only way. Were he a P, he'd have an easier time seeing alternate perspectives,a nd wouldn't be making such an ass out of himself =3

  7. #117
    Revelation Lauren Ashley's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Katsuni View Post
    Oh leave him alone. He's an INTJ; he thinks things through logically... but doesn't bother to base his insights on actual external stimuli (like actual people, just his own interpretation of them), and is highly judgemental, unable to see things from other's perspectives.

    ... Lex is just being biased on his definition of "intelligence", seeing only the singular method of application, and decreeing his way be the right and only way. Were he a P, he'd have an easier time seeing alternate perspectives,a nd wouldn't be making such an ass out of himself =3
    I love when some Ps on this forum display their "lack of judgment and ability to see alternate perspectives" by stating that Js are judgmental and have a hard time seeing alternate perspectives.

    Fact: Everyone judges and has an opinion. Not just extraverted judgers.

    You're doing the same as he is; making broad generalizations about others based on type.

  8. #118
    Priestess Of Syrinx Katsuni's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Lauren Ashley View Post
    I love when some Ps on this forum display their lack of judgment and ability to see alternate perspectives by saying that Js are judgmental and have a hard time seeing alternate perspectives.

    Fact: Everyone judges and has an opinion. Not just extraverted judgers.

    You're doing the same as he is; making broad generalizations about others based on type.
    Oh but of course!

    Everyone judges and has an opinion, though some are obviously far moreso than others. Some are very "This is my opinion, I refuse to see anyone else's as being valid!". Others may hold a conviction to their own opinion, but can understand another's point of view as well, even if they don't agree with it.

    That being said, a stronger P will tend to make people see things from other's perspectives. It doesn't mean that they'll change their OWN opinion, but it means they'll at least be more amicable towards opinions which don't match their own.

    I do in fact see things from his perspective, I just don't agree with it =3

    He, however, probably won't be able to see it from my perspective at all, he'll just know it is different from his own, as yeu are likely to do so as well, and disagree with me.

    These are obviously generalizations, as an ENTP, it's how I work ^.^ I start off with broad strokes, and refine and narrow it down during conversation, clipping out the bits that don't fit. Such is the way my mind works, though admittedly this leaves me flawed as well, as it means that I look like I'm changing my mind endlessly, or nitpicking, or giving ground.

    Admittedly it's actually a mixture of all of the above XD My opinion's not neccesarily set in stone; if I can get enough evidence to back it up, then great! However, I shall start out with the broad concept first, and narrow it down incrementally past that point, until it makes sense to me from all angles. If it doesn't make sense to me and has gaps that aren't capable of being explained, I'll discard such, until such time as I am given a new person to discuss it with, or a significant amount of time has passed (generally about 6 months I've found to discuss the same topic with the same person) so that they will be capable of providing new insight and argument into the matter. They may've been right, they just may not have been capable of explaining why.

    And so, we each have our own flaws, however, to understand such is to be able to utilize such. I know my ways look poor to many, but it really does work quite effectively. Assumming people don't get fed up and frustrated before I'm done XD

  9. #119
    Revelation Lauren Ashley's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Katsuni View Post
    That being said, a stronger P will tend to make people see things from other's perspectives. It doesn't mean that they'll change their OWN opinion, but it means they'll at least be more amicable towards opinions which don't match their own.
    I beg to differ. And a perusal around this forum will show you that, at the very least, the Ps on this forum aren't anymore apt to see things from other's perspectives than Js are. Including the NPs, the bastion of open-mindness and acceptance.

    He, however, probably won't be able to see it from my perspective at all, he'll just know it is different from his own, as yeu are likely to do so as well, and disagree with me.
    Yes, now condemn and generalize me as well, based on my self-reported type and nothing else. You're proving your case quite marvelously.

    Actually, I'm the same as you:

    I do in fact see things from his perspective, I just don't agree with it =3
    Quote Originally Posted by Katsuni View Post
    Admittedly it's actually a mixture of all of the above XD My opinion's not neccesarily set in stone; if I can get enough evidence to back it up, then great! However, I shall start out with the broad concept first, and narrow it down incrementally past that point, until it makes sense to me from all angles.
    And what makes you believe that that is not the way Lex, or any other J, arrived at their opinion?

  10. #120
    Member mattness's Avatar
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    i didn't read all of this but i just wanted to say that i have a masters in music theory. i can't spell all that great but i can write Musette tab that would blow your fucking mind

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