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The ESFP "stupid" myth.

King sns

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I've been telling jokers SFs are smart for awhile. They don't care.

You're right. It's pretty much pointless, since the entire point of trying to say that any type is stupid, (or otherwise inadequate) to begin with is to make themselves feel better about their own abilities. It's difficult to make valid arguments against people who are debating using facts and evidence that came from the debris that's flowing from their ass.

And well, honestly, when you're intelligent, you're intelligent. When you're not, you're not. And there's not much that anyone can say or do to change that.
 

Jaguar

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It's difficult to make valid arguments against people who are debating using facts and evidence that came from the debris that's flowing from their ass.

And well, honestly, when you're intelligent, you're intelligent. When you're not, you're not. And there's not much that anyone can say or do to change that.


:happy0065:
 

Suzanne

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It's funny that the title of this thread is "The ESFP "stupid" myth," when in reality, the so called "myth" is based after direct observation in the real world.

Let's face it, ESFPs are predisposed to stupidity, and there is no use defending them. They are shallow, linear minded, unoriginal in every way, tasteless, clearly lack abstract reasoning and don't care for it at all (sure sign of somebody with an insufficient critical thinking ability, it just doesn't exist for them!), and are "intelligent" only in the most practical of ways.... [blah blah blah]

How are my facts "supposed"? They are entirely derived from observation and inference. Stating that my facts are "supposed" because you dislike them is "non-NT-like."...

The first quote is what I was answering with my posts.
 

Sol_

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SF types should to have the lowest mathematics intelligence, but taking in account other cognitive sectors, their overall intelligence is conventional.
 

incubustribute

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Peter Griffin = S??

I've noticed a trend in television sitcoms for "stupid" characters to be ESFPs.
Notably, Homer Simpson, Peter Griffin, Joey Tribbiani and Kelly Bundy.

I'm sure someone has said this already, and I really don't mean to knit-pick, but Peter Griffin is most certainly ENFP. The way he vocalizes his crazy, ridiculous connections is pretty much a textbook example of N. "Like that time when..." Also, he is NOT concrete or 'feet-on-the-floor' with ANYTHING he does; he's always got his head in the clouds, constantly creating these silly inferences and abstract connections between two totally unrelated things. That's definitely dominant Ne at work...:newwink:
 

OnePiece

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I'm sure someone has said this already, and I really don't mean to knit-pick, but Peter Griffin is most certainly ENFP. The way he vocalizes his crazy, ridiculous connections is pretty much a textbook example of N. "Like that time when..." Also, he is NOT concrete or 'feet-on-the-floor' with ANYTHING he does; he's always got his head in the clouds, constantly creating these silly inferences and abstract connections between two totally unrelated things. That's definitely dominant Ne at work...:newwink:
Pretty much every main character on the show is a XNXP if you look at it like that.
 

King sns

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Just to add contrast to the anecdotal evidence of the pervasiveness of supposedly "smart" ESFPs, I will bring in some anecdotal evidence of my own: I know at least four proven ESFPs (which I have informally managed to test), all of whom are complete and utter morons, who albeit putting up a pretty front, are at the lower end of the thinking chain. Whatever they amount to in life external of social pretense, will never be due to their ESFP skills.

Eh, are you somehow implying that because I have not personally met every single ESFP, I cannot judge them based on their general characteristics as described both by Myer-Briggs and supported by my real life observation? I'm afraid that with your logic, the entire science of statistical analysis would become obsolete.

One man's real life observation of four people: no control, no variables, no set questions, no set tests... no definition of "stupidity" "utter moron" or "thinking chain." No clear definition of esfp even.

Perhaps if this now qualifies as a "study", then the entire science of statistical analysis should become obsolete.
 

Silly_Siren

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One man's real life observation of four people: no control, no variables, no set questions, no set tests... no definition of "stupidity" "utter moron" or "thinking chain." No clear definition of esfp even.

Perhaps if this now qualifies as a "study", then the entire science of statistical analysis should become obsolete.

I'll go tell the NT's it's all over :D *Runs off to The Rationale*
 

Jaguar

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I don't think most types are significantly correlated to intelligence, [...] Any statistics anyone can use in response to this can be thrown out as you never really know if people are typed correctly.

One of the few intelligent responses in this entire thread.
 

redacted

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I'm sure someone has said this already, and I really don't mean to knit-pick, but Peter Griffin is most certainly ENFP. The way he vocalizes his crazy, ridiculous connections is pretty much a textbook example of N. "Like that time when..." Also, he is NOT concrete or 'feet-on-the-floor' with ANYTHING he does; he's always got his head in the clouds, constantly creating these silly inferences and abstract connections between two totally unrelated things. That's definitely dominant Ne at work...:newwink:

Agree. Definitely ENP. Although I've been questioning the F recently.
 

LotsOfHeart

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Actually ESFPs are some of the smarter types from what I've noticed. Probably Se and Te working together.
 

Lex Talionis

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You're right. It's pretty much pointless, since the entire point of trying to say that any type is stupid, (or otherwise inadequate) to begin with is to make themselves feel better about their own abilities.

This is a complete bare assertion. You are making an illogical leap in thinking that I must have ulterior motives for what I do. Yet you claim that I am illogical? Your entire stance is based on unscientific supposition.

It's difficult to make valid arguments against people who are debating using facts and evidence that came from the debris that's flowing from their ass.

What facts and evidence that come "flowing from their ass"? It's a simple matter of disproving my assertions.

And well, honestly, when you're intelligent, you're intelligent. When you're not, you're not. And there's not much that anyone can say or do to change that.

That isn't the argument. The argument is that ESFPs generally exhibit behavior which is generally considered "stupid." Whether or not their core intelligence (which I wouldn't define as ultimate intelligence) is adept or not is a different matter. The very fact that they do what they do and think the way they think is a sign of weak reasoning and poor critical thinking.

You are only strengthening my argument when you type this kind of nonsense.
 

Lex Talionis

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Agree. Definitely ENP. Although I've been questioning the F recently.

No he isn't. He's definitely an S. Where do you get the idea that he's an N?

What I see all too often on this forum is that people point out one or two traits which are insignificant and suppose that one is of a particular temperament.

Peter Griffin exhibits no clear signs of being an intuit. He is a typical jester who acts purely on immediate grounds and impulses.

Stewie and Brian are definitely NTs, and Meg is most likely an NF, but Peter is definitely an S. Lois is probably an NF as well.

Actually ESFPs are some of the smarter types from what I've noticed. Probably Se and Te working together.

Prove it. Se and Te working together to produce what? Where is the depth of intelligence in that? Se and Te would work if one had as many variables as possible, but that is hardly indicative of intelligence, which works on inference and deduction to come up with rational explanations. It is effective when it comes to logically organizing, but not planning, abstract reasoning, and concept building.
 

ChocolateMoose123

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ESFP's are quintessential jokers. I've seen them do things just for the effect it has on their "audience" Make them laugh or whatever. One of my best friends is an ESFP and I've seen her purposely walk into walls for the effect. She never lets on that she's doing these kinds of things on purpose and she's so good at it that if you didn't know her, you'd think she was being serious. LOL.

So I could see how the "stupid" myth can be generated but it's just them playing the fool. They are very smart interpersonally.
 

BlackCat

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What facts and evidence that come "flowing from their ass"? It's a simple matter of disproving my assertions.

We have been, constantly, in this thread. But you don't seem to get that. We say that you can't generalize like that, and yet you continue to assert that you can and that it's 100% accurate every time.

Seriously, stop bullshitting. What is there to gain, to force these bullshit assertions into this thread? Everything you're posting here lacks purpose and you CANNOT prove that every ESFP is like what you've described based on a few people you've met. This is a basic rule in science, in any form of study, a basic guideline. That correlations aren't set in stone, ever. Statistical significance, in your case a few ESFPs, does NOT make a set standard. This is dangerous thinking in any field of study. This is like saying that because you win at a slot machine three times in a row, that you will win every time.

If you've been to college or taken any psychological courses in your entire life, it's in the second chapter of your textbook. Read the section about experimenting. If you've taken any formal psychology classes then you will know that what you're asserting is bullshit just because the statistical significance is nil. You are obviously un educated if you are asserting these claims.

Prove it.

Disprove it.
 

Lex Talionis

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We have been, constantly, in this thread. But you don't seem to get that. We say that you can't generalize like that, and yet you continue to assert that you can and that it's 100% accurate every time.

Seriously, stop bullshitting. What is there to gain, to force these bullshit assertions into this thread? Everything you're posting here lacks purpose and you CANNOT prove that every ESFP is like what you've described based on a few people you've met. This is a basic rule in science, in any form of study, a basic guideline. That correlations aren't set in stone, ever. Statistical significance, in your case a few ESFPs, does NOT make a set standard. This is dangerous thinking in any field of study. This is like saying that because you win at a slot machine three times in a row, that you will win every time.

If you've been to college or taken any psychological courses in your entire life, it's in the second chapter of your textbook. Read the section about experimenting. If you've taken any formal psychology classes then you will know that what you're asserting is bullshit just because the statistical significance is nil. You are obviously un educated if you are asserting these claims.

I'm not generalizing. I'm making a simple point as to the character of ESFPs.

If an ESFP is "smart," it is because they were able to develop other strengths such as intuitive insight and abstract reasoning.

What's so difficult to understand about this? I don't have an agenda, and it does matter, because truth ultimately matters.

Disprove it.

What kind of response is that?
 
G

Glycerine

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Couldn't many ESFPs just be naturally smart? Furthermore, it is more likely that the naturally smart ESFPs developed other functions because of their innate intelligence which, in turn, furthers their mental capabilities even more. As a result, the intelligence of an ESFP is not dependent on developing N but most likely the cause of developing N (and other functions). The same thing could be said for any other other type. For example, I can't see how a smart ENFJ who just heavily relies on FeNi is smarter than someone who has developed SeTi also.
 
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BlackCat

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I'm not generalizing. I'm making a simple point as to the character of ESFPs.

If an ESFP is "smart," it is because they were able to develop other strengths such as intuitive insight and abstract reasoning.

What's so difficult to understand about this? I don't have an agenda, and it does matter, because truth ultimately matters.

Making a "simple point as to the character of ESFPs" IS a generalization. How is it not?

So you think that "smart" is essentially NT characteristics?

Wow. All that I have to say is that you are gravely misusing this system.

What kind of response is that?

If you ask for someone to prove themselves in a rhetorical style, it's pretty safe to assume that you can easily disprove it and you have disproved it in your mind.

And you still can't prove that anything you say is true.
 

briochick

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of most (not all) the ESFPs I've known, few were willing to engage in "all that smart stuff." A couple examples; My sister probably has a moderate IQ but, by God, you'd think she'd been raised by the mentally debilitated for how much of her brain matter she actually *uses*. My ESFP just generally assumes that book smarts, or practical smarts, or logical stuff, or analytical stuff isn't for her, but she graduated with a better gpa than I did. It can get frustrating. Though both of them are way better at pleasing people and getting what they want than I am.
I don't think actual skill has much to do with it, but rather an unwillingness to live outside the moment.
 
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Silly_Siren

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If an ESFP is "smart," it is because they were able to develop other strengths such as intuitive insight and abstract reasoning.

I thought S stood for sensing, not stupid. Are ballerinas, musicians, sculptors innately stupid just because they aren't big on NT?

I'd scratch my head again, but this thread has already made my scalp raw.:cry:
 
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