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  1. #71
    Senior Member zago's Avatar
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    I would like Jennifer's opinion here. I haven't seen a response from her in the thread, and I think she has the best chance of judging this right.

    Otherwise, I think what we have is a conundrum because Juno is fictional. Her lines are script, and I think that makes her sound more N than she really would be. Her articulation is not something I took for granted in the movie--I kept on thinking, "nobody would say that." I may grant the fact that her words themselves are N-ish, but everything else is ISFP. She may simply be an inconsistent, unrealistic character with traits that stick out of both Ne and Fi-Se.

  2. #72
    Senior Member Qre:us's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by zago View Post
    If she did that on the fly, everything is done on the fly. She got the idea when she saw the lawn chair at the yard sale, and it developed from there. She winds up with the thing and an elaborate display in front of Bleeker's front door, even with a pipe for added effect. Lugging a huge chair to someone's lawn and setting up a display is improvising how?

    Your wiki link even says it: improvisation is "in the moment and in response to the stimulus of one's immediate environment and inner feelings." The only thing spontaneous about this situation was the idea to do it itself. The rest was elaborately planned to have a highly striking visual, dramatic, and ironic effect.
    Why did she do the lawn chair in front of Beeker's front yard again? What do you mean by ironic effect?

  3. #73
    Blah Orangey's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by zago View Post
    Otherwise, I think what we have is a conundrum because Juno is fictional. Her lines are script, and I think that makes her sound more N than she really would be. Her articulation is not something I took for granted in the movie--I kept on thinking, "nobody would say that." I may grant the fact that her words themselves are N-ish, but everything else is ISFP. She may simply be an inconsistent, unrealistic character with traits that stick out of both Ne and Fi-Se.
    Than she would be if what? If she were a real person? How do we know what she would really be like outside of how she is portrayed in the movie? What basis do you have for thinking that her "artistic" behavior (or essence, or whatever you said it was) is more realistic, and hence a more relevant, characteristic? If she is a totally unrealistic character, then we either have to be fine with saying that she is untypeable, or if we are going to type her anyway, we need to treat all characteristics equally. You are erroneously privileging some characteristics over others in terms of importance to type.

    I think you may be onto something about her being an introvert, though. She does have a fairly small, tight-knit group of friends.
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  4. #74
    Senior Member zago's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Qre:us View Post
    Why did she do the lawn chair in front of Beeker's front yard again? What do you mean by ironic effect?
    Ironic because she was telling him she was pregnant, and she was sitting there in his front lawn in an armchair with a pipe in her mouth. This gives a totally false impression about the news she was about to break, making it very ironic.

  5. #75
    Senior Member zago's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Orangey View Post
    Than she would be if what? If she were a real person? How do we know what she would really be like outside of how she is portrayed in the movie? What basis do you have for thinking that her "artistic" behavior (or essence, or whatever you said it was) is more realistic, and hence a more relevant, characteristic? If she is a totally unrealistic character, then we either have to be fine with saying that she is untypeable, or if we are going to type her anyway, we need to treat all characteristics equally. You are erroneously privileging some characteristics over others in terms of importance to type.

    I think you may be onto something about her being an introvert, though. She does have a fairly small, tight-knit group of friends.
    Like I said, her dialog stuck out like a sore thumb against the rest of her character. That's why I am singling out the dialog as N and saying that the rest of her is what should would really be like.

  6. #76
    Senior Member Qre:us's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by zago View Post
    Ironic because she was telling him she was pregnant, and she was sitting there in his front lawn in an armchair with a pipe in her mouth. This gives a totally false impression about the news she was about to break, making it very ironic.
    I thought so, that you didn't pick up on the sig. of the chair. It wasn't random because Juno didn't MEAN for it to be random. That is the surface reaction she was going for...but....

    Um...it was a total Ne connection, wanted to see if you picked up on that. The movie's first line is, "It started with a chair". Ne likes to make a full circle - it can be very well utilized for 'poetic justice'.

    She recreated the 'night' for Bleeker when she broke the news of her pregnancy to him, on his front lawn, sitting on that 'same' chair where they had le sex. She was finding morbid humour in the whole situation.

  7. #77
    Senior Member zago's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Qre:us View Post
    I thought so, that you didn't pick up on the sig. of the chair. It wasn't random because Juno didn't MEAN for it to be random. That is the surface reaction she was going for...but....

    Um...it was a total Ne connection, wanted to see if you picked up on that. The movie's first line is, "It started with a chair". Ne likes to make a full circle - it can be very well utilized for 'poetic justice'.

    She recreated the 'night' for Bleeker when she broke the news of her pregnancy to him, on his front lawn, sitting on that 'same' chair where they had le sex. She was finding morbid humour in the whole situation.
    Hm. I forgot it was the chair they porked on, actually. Still, I think that can be interpreted as Fi or Ne. Fi would imply a close personal relationship with the chair--it is part of her identity and the identity of the situation as a whole.

    Also, if anything this is more of a literary device than characterization of Juno. I doubt the author was thinking about Juno's internal motivations for using the chair. I think it worked well in the movie, though, now that I see that it was the chair she got boned in.

  8. #78
    Blah Orangey's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by zago View Post
    Like I said, her dialog stuck out like a sore thumb against the rest of her character. That's why I am singling out the dialog as N and saying that the rest of her is what should would really be like.
    Meh, then this is a difference in perception, because (in relation to her character) I don't think that the dialogue was out of line with the rest of her character. If we lined up some aspects of her behavior like in an IQ test - witty speaking style, dresses quirky, decorates room with odd things she likes, likes alternative music, has careless attitude, has appreciation for novelty - I don't think I'd be picking speaking style as the odd one out.

    So in relation to the rest of her character as displayed in the movie, I don't find her speaking to be out of synch with the other aspects of her character portrayed. And if we're talking about in relation to reality, I find a lot of aspects of her character to be equally contrived and unrealistic, so the speaking can't be singled out as a trait to ignore on the basis of being unrealistic.
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  9. #79
    Senior Member zago's Avatar
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    Juno could definitely be described as pensive.

    Pensive and ETP don't mix.

  10. #80
    Senior Member Tiltyred's Avatar
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    I missed that, too. Where is she pensive?

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