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  1. #21
    meh Salomé's Avatar
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    The Social Network is an expertly crafted and exhaustively modern film, and one of its more pertinent flashpoints is the reminder that a resource that redefined the human interactions of 500 million people across the globe was germinated in an act of vengeful misogyny. Woman-hating is the background noise of this story. Aaron Sorkin's dazzlingly scripted showdown between awkward, ambitious young men desperate for wealth and respect phrases women and girls as glorified sexual extras, lovely assistants in the grand trick whose reveal is the future of human business and communication.

    The only roles for women in this drama are dancing naked on tables at exclusive fraternity clubs, inspiring men to genius by spurning their carnal advances and giving appreciative blowjobs in bathroom stalls. This is no reflection on the personal moral compass of Sorkin, who is no misogynist, but who understands that in rarefied American circles of power and privilege, women are still stage-hands, and objectification is hard currency.

    The territory of this modern parable is precisely objectification: not just of women, but of all consumers. In what the film's promoters describe as a "definitively American " story of entrepreneurship, Zuckerberg becomes rich because, as a social outsider, he can see the value in reappropriating the social as something that can be monetised. This is what Facebook is about, and ultimately what capitalist realism is about: life as reducible to one giant hot-or-not contest, with adverts.
    http://www.newstatesman.com/blogs/la...ook-geek-women
    Think I'll pass.
    Quote Originally Posted by Ivy View Post
    Gosh, the world looks so small from up here on my high horse of menstruation.

  2. #22
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    Quote Originally Posted by Morgan Le Fay View Post
    Think I'll pass.
    Couldn't agree more. Infact I think the whole holywoodification that has been performed sounds like complete bollocks. I've read in a few sources that the whole story is blown up out of all proportion when compared to 'what actually happened'.

  3. #23
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    Quote Originally Posted by Edgar View Post
    Why is it everytime there's a divious and/or caustic charter everyone just HAS TO type them as an INTJ. How many INTJs do you know obssess about being a part of some college club just so they can hang with the "cool crowd"?

    Try ISTJ.
    That wasn't his reasoning though - the clubs were a means to an end - a better life. He wasn't longing to join because it was expected or the "right" thing to do.

    Quote Originally Posted by InvisibleJim View Post
    Couldn't agree more. Infact I think the whole holywoodification that has been performed sounds like complete bollocks. I've read in a few sources that the whole story is blown up out of all proportion when compared to 'what actually happened'.
    Several people (the twins, notably) have said it's quite accurate. One producer said there's a reason no one has sued them, and why they know exactly what brand of beer Zuckerberg was drinking when he created his first notorious webpage.

  4. #24
    Senior Member ZPowers's Avatar
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    Sorkin has directly addressed the accusations of sexism, saying that, unfortunately, most of the sexist dialogue is verbatim from Zuckerberg's blog, and on account of the guy being a sexist douche, most intelligent, independent women did avoid him and groupies flocked: This is how the actual story played out, and in fact Sorkin added a strong female character (played by Rashida Jones) who wasn't even involved in the actual events surrounding the origins of Facebook. Here's a full explanation (and apology):

    I also loved The Social Network, except for one thing-- the lack of a decent portrayal of women. With the exception of 1 or 2 of them (Rashida Jones included), they were basically sex objects/stupid groupies. Even what you say here:
    Jesse Eisenberg is what Michael Cera aspires to be. Justin Timberlake continues to be the most talented STAR SEARCH winner ever, And Rashida Jones is just great to look at.


    ... kinda makes me think that Aaron Sorkin (though I love his writing) failed the women in this script. Kind of a shame considering he's written great women characters like C.J. Cregg!

    ---------

    This is Aaron Sorkin and I wanted to address Taraza's comment. (Ken, I'll get to you in and your very generous blog post in just a moment.

    Tarazza--believe me, I get it. It's not hard to understand how bright women could be appalled by what they saw in the movie but you have to understand that that was the very specific world I was writing about. Women are both prizes an equal. Mark's blogging that we hear in voiceover as he drinks, hacks, creates Facemash and dreams of the kind of party he's sure he's missing, came directly from Mark's blog. With the exception of doing some cuts and tightening (and I can promise you that nothing that I cut would have changed your perception of the people or the trajectory of the story by even an inch) I used Mark's blog verbatim. Mark said, "Erica Albright's a bitch" (Erica isn't her real name--I changed three names in the movie when there was no need to embarrass anyone further), "Do you think that's because all B.U. girls are bitches?" Facebook was born during a night of incredibly misogyny. The idea of comparing women to farm animals, and then to each other, based on their looks and then publicly ranking them. It was a revenge stunt, aimed first at the woman who'd most recently broke his heart (who should get some kind of medal for not breaking his head) and then at the entire female population of Harvard.

    More generally, I was writing about a very angry and deeply misogynistic group of people. These aren't the cuddly nerds we made movies about in the 80's. They're very angry that the cheerleader still wants to go out with the quarterback instead of the men (boys) who are running the universe right now. The women they surround themselves with aren't women who challenge them (and frankly, no woman who could challenge them would be interested in being anywhere near them.)

    And this very disturbing attitude toward women isn't just confined to the guys who can't get dates.

    I didn't invent the "F--k Truck", it's real--and the men (boys) at the final clubs think it's what they deserve for being who they are. (It's only fair to note that the women--bussed in from other schools for the "hot" parties, wait on line to get on that bus without anyone pointing guns at their heads.)

    These women--whether it's the girls who are happy to take their clothes off and dance for the boys or Eduardo's psycho-girlfriend are real. I mean REALLY real. (In the case of Christy, Eduardo's girlfriend so beautifully played by Brenda Song, I conflated two characters--again I hope you'll trust me that doing that did nothing to alter our take on the events. Christy was the second of three characters whose name I changed.)

    I invented two characters--one was Rashida Jones's "Marylin", the youngest lawyer on the team and a far cry from the other women we see in the movie. She's plainly serious, competent and, when asked, has no problem speaking the truth as she sees it to Mark. The other was Gretchen, Eduardo's lawyer (in reality there was a large team of litigators who all took turns deposing witnesses but I wanted us to become familiar with just one person--a woman, who, again, is nobody's trophy.

    And Rooney Mara's Erica's a class act.

    I wish I could go door to door and make this explanation/apology to any woman offended by the things you've pointed out but obviously that's unrealistic so I thought the least I could do was speak directly to you.

    Ken--Thanks for your really nice words and for giving me a chance to apologize again for my remarks back in 2005. Obviously a star writer on one of the best comedies of all time doesn't need to prove his credentials as a "real" comedy writer.

    Aaron Sorkin
    From what I can tell, the movie isn't accountable for most of the sexism: it's the reality that the central characters are sexist men who repel strong women, and to claim otherwise is to lie about a story that actually happened.
    Does he want a pillow for his head?

  5. #25
    Klingon Warrior Princess Patches's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Randomnity View Post
    It was pretty clear that Mark was an INT. INTP seemed much more likely, but INTJ isn't completely out of the question.
    Agreed. The VERY first scene in the bar with the girl where he is jumping from topic to topic and having 3 conversations at once? Seems more NT. I wouldn't label him S.
    “Everybody has a secret world inside of them. All of the people of the world, I mean everybody. No matter how dull and boring they are on the outside, inside
    them they've all got unimaginable, magnificent, wonderful, stupid, amazing worlds. Not just one world. Hundreds of them. Thousands maybe.” -Neil Gaiman

    ~

  6. #26
    Nerd King Usurper Edgar's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by MacGuffin View Post
    That wasn't his reasoning though - the clubs were a means to an end - a better life. He wasn't longing to join because it was expected or the "right" thing to do.
    I disagree. He was on the quest to be part of the cool crowd. That why he was all into that Napster guy's shit - because that guy was cool and Mark wanted to be like him.

    And if it was merely a mean to an end, he wouldn't have gotten so butthurt about his friend getting accepted into the Phoenix club.
    Listen to me, baby, you got to understand, you're old enough to learn the makings of a man.

  7. #27
    Senior Member KarenParker's Avatar
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    Mark Zuckerberg is the most hardcore INTJ I've ever seen. I mean real life Mark Zuckerberg. He is the poster child for INTJ. Trust me, I was married to one for 7 years.
    E - 79% I - 21%
    S - 53% N - 47%
    T - 32% F - 68%
    J - 32% P - 68%

    ESFP


  8. #28
    Senior Member Blown Ghost's Avatar
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    Mark - ISTP
    Ed - ISFJ
    Sean - ENTP

  9. #29
    meh Salomé's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by ZPowers View Post
    Sorkin has directly addressed the accusations of sexism, saying that, unfortunately, most of the sexist dialogue is verbatim from Zuckerberg's blog, and on account of the guy being a sexist douche, most intelligent, independent women did avoid him and groupies flocked: This is how the actual story played out, and in fact Sorkin added a strong female character (played by Rashida Jones) who wasn't even involved in the actual events surrounding the origins of Facebook. Here's a full explanation (and apology):

    From what I can tell, the movie isn't accountable for most of the sexism: it's the reality that the central characters are sexist men who repel strong women, and to claim otherwise is to lie about a story that actually happened.
    That was interesting, thanks for posting. Still, the movie is glamourising and perpetuating that philosophy, (and making a shitload on the back of it) so Sorkin can't wash his hands so easily.
    One wonders why such a successful writer/producer would want to be involved in a project which makes him "wish he could go door to door to apologize" to the women (and presumably enlightened men) he offends (though one doesn't have to wonder for very long).
    Clearly there were other possible treatments, they were just less commercial.

    It reminds me of the similar debate over The Girl with the Dragon Tattoo series ""Misogynist violence is appalling," the author whispers; "now here's some more."
    Quote Originally Posted by Ivy View Post
    Gosh, the world looks so small from up here on my high horse of menstruation.

  10. #30
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    Quote Originally Posted by Morgan Le Fay View Post
    It reminds me of the similar debate over The Girl with the Dragon Tattoo series ""Misogynist violence is appalling," the author whispers; "now here's some more."
    Kinda, but that was complete fiction, this is semi-biographical. Couldn't really shoehorn a competent woman into the script where none were allowed IRL.

    Though Rooney Mara's character (she's also slated to play Lisbeth Salander is the American GWTDT remake) in the first scene was fantastic:

    "You're going to be successful, and rich. But you're going to go through life thinking that girls don't like you because you're a nerd. And I want you to know, from the bottom of my heart, that that won't be true. It'll be because you're an asshole."

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