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Thread: Wicked (The Broadway Musical)

  1. #1
    loopy Array Ulaes's Avatar
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    Default Wicked (The Broadway Musical)

    Glinda: ESFJ
    Fiyero : ESFP
    Elphaba: INFJ
    The Wizard: ???? i dont really remember him, an F maybe, because he's a "sentimental man"?

    great play by the way!

  2. #2
    i love Array skylights's Avatar
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    i agree with glinda, definitely ESFJ, fiyero sounds right too

    maybe INFP/INTJ for elphaba though, she strikes me as more Fi than Fe

    this is just from bits and pieces of the musical i remember, though. i've only just started the book

    Last edited by skylights; 09-13-2010 at 02:24 AM. Reason: add S

  3. #3
    loopy Array Ulaes's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by skylights View Post

    maybe INFP/INTJ for elphaba though, she strikes me as more Fi than Fe
    yeah maybe. those types occured to me also.

  4. #4
    Senior Member Array rowingineden's Avatar
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    I get INFP for Elphaba and ESFJ for Glinda; their dynamic is exactly the same as mine with ESFJ females in real life.
    "You get what you're given, it's all how you use it."
    Pink - "God is a DJ"
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  5. #5
    .~ *aĉa virino* ~. Array Totenkindly's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by rowingineden View Post
    I get INFP for Elphaba and ESFJ for Glinda; their dynamic is exactly the same as mine with ESFJ females in real life.
    I found this thread when I was going to start my own (and it's good to distinguish the Musical from the Book), and yes, I strongly agree.

    Glinda: ESFJ
    Fiyero : ExxP, potentially ESFP. ("Dancing Through Life," his hallmark song, is highly definitive)
    Elphaba: INFP (with strong Te)

    With Elphaba, yes, you can almost see T (INTJ) based on her behavior, but the underpinnings of her behavior are very altruistic. (Alternately, you could claim her to be an INTJ with weaker Te and really strong Fi.... maybe... but I think the INFP read is better.) You see her compassion for the Oz Animals, and she openly wants to "do good" and is driven by her values, and the big culmination of her arc is about choosing to not do good again (since it always backfires), and also choosing to disappear and stop wielding power. In the ending that never made it to the finished musical (due to dramatic necessity, there was too much occurring at the end already), we were supposed to see Elphaba living among the Animals of the plains to take care of them, a life of quiet gentle service to them including the Doctor who had lost his powers of speech who she had great affection for. All these sort of concerns lead away from someone with a more Te focus -- Te is how Elphaba promotes her values (Fi) rather than her intuitions (Ni).

    I was pretty amazed when I bought the Wicked soundtrack due to how clearly drawn the two leads are in terms of Fi vs Fe. You could sum up the story as the response and self-positioning of two women to the established authority: One woman works within the system as a collaborator (Glinda, Fe), while the other woman works outside the system as a rebel/outcast/instigator (Elphaba, Fi).
    Last edited by Bellflower; 09-19-2010 at 03:13 PM.
    "Hey Capa -- We're only stardust." ~ "Sunshine"

    “Pleasure to me is wonder—the unexplored, the unexpected, the thing that is hidden and the changeless thing that lurks behind superficial mutability. To trace the remote in the immediate; the eternal in the ephemeral; the past in the present; the infinite in the finite; these are to me the springs of delight and beauty.” ~ H.P. Lovecraft
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  6. #6
    .~ *aĉa virino* ~. Array Totenkindly's Avatar
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    Default Galinda (Fe)

    *warning: spoilers*

    One of the opening lines in the book that describes Galinda (her name until partway through the narrative) is that she is a girl who, because of her beauty and popularity, who assumes that she has great significance and merely has to discover what, but her identity and appeal is never in doubt. She knows that people respond to her, a power she can use to serve her purposes (which she automatically assumes to be “good”).

    The musical follows in that vein, and Galinda narrative arc involves a growing awareness that maybe her significance is not as great as she had assumed and that also she is not nearly as happy ("Thank Goodness") as she had expected herself to be by remaining within the system.

    The musical maintains the sugary pretention brought to Galinda by Billie Burke back in the original "Wizard of Oz." As portrayed by Chenoweth (the original Broadway Galinda who established the character for all future productions), the white witch even has two singing styles -- when she's in a personal setting, her voice is warmer and within normal range, but in her public persona her voice resembles far more the “movie” version: She ranges into the soprano range and uses a formalized operatic tone that acts as a social façade for someone in her position. She also uses a plethora of whimsical phrases and vocabulary that attempts to be endearing but can come off as sugary and pretentious (such as writing a letter to "Dear Darlingest Momsie and Popsicle" compared to Elphaba's letter to her dad which starts simply and earnestly with "My dear father").

    After moving in together, Galinda describes Elphaba to her parents as “unusually and exceedingly peculiar and quite impossible to describe” – a roundabout way of hinting at her real feelings, which we discover in short order to be “loathing.”

    In fact, Galinda and Elphaba never really get along until a catty Fe-style prank by Galinda backfries: She gives Elphaba a pointy black hat to wear to the ball under the pretense of a gift, knowing full well it will lead to further ostracizing of her green-skinned roommate and win her points, but Elphaba’s grace under pressure (she refuses to flee and instead continues dancing, alone, at the ball while everyone laughs) creates both embarrassment and guilt in Galinda, who then joins her on the floor as an act of contrition; and the two thus become friends.

    Once the “friendship” is sealed, Galinda immediately takes it upon herself to "fix" her roommate, even when Elphaba doesn’t seem particularly interested. This is one of the funnier songs in the soundtrack, and again Chenoweth hits the tone perfectly -- somehow making this annoying, manipulating, presumptuous meddler come across as likeable or at least understandable:

    (spoken) Elphie - now that we're friends, I've decided to
    make you my new project.

    (spoken) You really don't have to do that

    (spoken) I know. That's what makes me so nice!
    (sung) Whenever I see someone
    Less fortunate than I
    (And let's face it - who isn't
    Less fortunate than I?)
    My tender heart
    Tends to start to bleed
    And when someone needs a makeover
    I simply have to take over
    I know I know exactly what they need
    And even in your case
    Tho' it's the toughest case I've yet to face
    Don't worry - I'm determined to succeed
    Follow my lead
    And yes, indeed
    You will be:

    You're gonna be popular...
    (see the rest at Popular Lyrics)
    The entire song goes on to describe how people don’t make their way through the world because they are worthy or smart but because they’re “likable/popular” … and if you want to be successful, you have to learn how to play the social game.

    Elphaba is not the only victim of Galinda’s social machinations. When Boq, a munchkin who adores Galinda but who she’s not interested in, says he will sit around all night at the ball hoping for one dance with her, she deflects him towards the disabled Nessarose, saying it would please her immensely. During this plea, Galinda does not even get Boq's name right (she calls him Bick, an oversight he ignores due to his adoration for her); and while it’s clear that part of her intention is to avoid anything ruining her chances to score with Fiyero, her constructed image prevents her just from stating this and instead she ends up indulging in a somewhat-hollow act of altruism that causes issues later in the narrative.

    Galinda manages to either overlook or unconsciously ignore the fact that Fiyero and Elphaba are at least somewhat interested in each other; after all, she’s playing the game “right,” and she’ll make things fall into place. When the pair’s feelings become more obvious (because of a shared interest in the plight of the talking animals, highlighted by the removal of Dr. Dillamond, a talking animal professor at Shiz), she attempts to impress Fiyero by (rather than challenging the “rules of the institution”) announcing she will change her name to “Glinda” in honor of Doctor Dillamond’s persistent mispronunciation.

    Meanwhile, Glinda has been grooming Elphaba (the social misfit) to be accepted by society, and getting her endorsed by the Wizard will be the highlight of her plan... but Elphaba screws up the plan because her values clash with the Wizard’s policies and drives her to flee with the Wizard's Grimmoire, which leads to her being branded a villain by the authorities. The way Glinda starts off in a brief moment of quiet both find while the rest of the castle is in chaos highlights Glinda's "work within the system approach" and Elphaba's view of social regulation as a compromise:

    (spoken) Elphaba - why couldn't you have stayed calm for
    once, instead of flying off the handle!
    (sung) I hope you're happy!
    I hope you're happy now
    I hope you're happy how you
    Hurt your cause forever
    I hope you think you're clever!

    I hope you're happy
    I hope you're happy, too
    I hope you're proud how you
    Would grovel in submission
    To feed your own ambition

    So though I can't imagine how
    I hope you're happy right now

    (spoken) Elphie, listen to me. Just say you're sorry:
    (sung) You can still be with the Wizard
    What you've worked and waited for
    You can have all you ever wanted...
    (for rest of lyrics, see Defying Gravity Lyrics)
    Chenoweth again pulls off the proper tone in how she sings the lines... she starts out in snarky frustration, but in the last listed stanza, she pleads with Elphaba to keep her from making what she sees as a truly horrible mistake that will hurt her friend's chances at integration ("Can't I make you understand," she sings, "that you're having delusion of grandeur?"). She really believes that working the system is the best way to proceed, and the thought of her friend forever being cast outside the system is breaking her heart since she believes it is not in Elphaba's best long-term interests. Her perceptions and judgments are very stereotypical Fe in nature.

    Despite their friendship, Glinda cannot yet accept Elphaba's offer to rebel with her and forge an unlimited alliance of power that could change the world for good; it is apparent that social affirmation is an essential part of Glinda's well-being, and acting outside the system, as a rebel, is too much for her to handle. ("I hope you're happy," she sings, finally honest, wanting Elphaba's plan to work even though she cannot understand it herself, "now that you're choosing this...")

    A few years later, we see Glinda has been officially decreed "Glinda the God," and publicly she's become the endorsed enchantress we all recognize from the original movie, revered by the munchkins.

    But the real Glinda is showing cracks in the veneer; the things she thought would make her happy are not making her as happy as she hoped. She attempts to create a “day of celebration” in the middle of Elphaba’s continued “reign of terror” as part of keeping the munchkins at ease (another social ploy), and then veers into segment describing how her idea of happiness is achieving the fairy-tale ending, with a happy life, social success, and marriage to a man who loves her – “Happy is what happens when all your dreams come true.” And yet, the longer she sings, the more uncertainty she reveals: It’s clear that the equation for success and happiness she has followed socially has not brought her the happiness and security she hoped. While she struggles to maintain the pretense, her tone is laden with pain and emptiness, and her words bounce from happy veneer to hidden misgiving and remorse:

    That's why I couldn't be happier
    No, I couldn't be happier
    Though it is, I admit
    The tiniest bit
    Unlike I anticipated
    But I couldn't be happier
    Simply couldn't be happier
    (spoken) Well - not "simply":
    (sung) 'Cause getting your dreams
    It's strange, but it seems
    A little - well - complicated
    There's a kind of a sort of ... cost
    There's a couple of things get ... lost
    There are bridges you cross
    You didn't know you crossed
    Until you've crossed
    And if that joy, that thrill
    Doesn't thrill you like you think it will
    And yet she feels compelled to still wear the facade despite her inner confusion:

    Still -
    With this perfect finale
    The cheers and ballyhoo
    Wouldn't be happier?
    So I couldn't be happier
    Because happy is what happens
    When all your dreams come true
    Well, isn't it?
    Happy is what happens
    When your dreams come true
    (rest of lyrics at
    Thank Goodness Lyrics)
    The next time we see Glinda, her heart has been broken: Fiyero has finally left her for Elphaba, despite all the things she has done to keep him. Now she sings the same song that Elphaba sang back at Shiz, when Glinda had “gotten her man” and Elphaba was left in the dark:
    Don't wish, Don't start
    Wishing only wounds the heart
    There's a girl I know
    He loves her so...
    I'm not that girl
    No matter how popular she has made herself to be, no matter the wonderful image she has sculpted, now it feels hollow, and she can no longer maintain the subterfuge. She is no longer Glinda the perfect and most desirable. Her happy ending is ruined. The old Fe social script no longer works. It's the low moment of her life.... but a catalytic one.

    Despite her misgivings, she advises the authorities on how to capture her friend… another plan that backfires, resulting in Fiyero’s capture and torture. She goes to Elphaba’s castle to convince her to release Dorothy – which ends up being their last meeting. Elphaba charges Glinda with remembering their common goal and pursuing the good within the system that Elphaba realizes she can no longer pursue outside of it. Glinda pledges her own love toward her friend, and after Elphaba’s seeming death, returns to the Emerald City to confront the Wizard – blackmailing him into exile (by balloon) and imprisoning his mouthpiece Madam Morrible, taking over Oz herself in order to construct a better society.

    Throughout the musical, Glinda expresses an intimate understanding of the social currents and expectations and has a lot of trouble following personal values of good in the face of maintaining her power and flexibility within the established social structure. In the hands of the right performer, Glinda comes off as an unfortunately shallow girl with good intentions, who firmly is committed to working within the system in order to help others all while being tainted by self-interest; and it's hard not to feel sorry for her when she finally realizes that all the things she has done and striven to accomplish did not produce the results she wanted... that everything she thought would make her happy has not really succeeded, and eventually she has to stake her reputation and position on following her inner vision of good instead of trying to merely maintaining her social image and allowing the culture to define her values.
    Last edited by Bellflower; 09-19-2010 at 04:27 PM.
    "Hey Capa -- We're only stardust." ~ "Sunshine"

    “Pleasure to me is wonder—the unexplored, the unexpected, the thing that is hidden and the changeless thing that lurks behind superficial mutability. To trace the remote in the immediate; the eternal in the ephemeral; the past in the present; the infinite in the finite; these are to me the springs of delight and beauty.” ~ H.P. Lovecraft

  7. #7
    .~ *aĉa virino* ~. Array Totenkindly's Avatar
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    Default Elphaba (Fi)

    *warning: spoilers*

    Elphaba's path seemed set based on circumstances beyond her control: She was the seeming union of her mother and a traveling stranger (later revealed to be the Wizard) who got her drunk with green elixir... a curiosity resulting in Elphaba being born with green skin. Her appearance defines her position in the culture from birth: Her father casts her out, and she is always looked on with suspicion or as the target of jokes from her peers, regardless of her ability or character. She thus always has an antagonistic relationship with social convention.

    Elphaba's first real song in the show is called "The Wizard and I" -- the typical "discover myself, acquire my dreams" song made popular by ENFP Ariel in "The Little Mermaid." Elphaba is startled to realize that her magical talent might actually win her acceptance in a world from which she has always felt excluded from; she is finally seen as "special" by someone and not in a bad way. At this point, she allows us to see her hidden dreams -- that the Wizard will perhaps take a fatherly role and view her for the worthwhile and capable girl she is, that she will finally be accepted by her peers, that perhaps the Wizard will even "de-greenify" her physical skin as well as her social image (an offer she will at first pretend to brush off, then casually acquiesce to, without masking how obviously a big deal that would be to her). In any case, she does see a "special destiny" in place for herself which (we know) will come true but not in the way she hopes:

    My future is unlimited
    And I've just had a vision
    Almost like a prophecy
    I know - it sounds truly crazy
    And true, the vision's hazy
    But I swear, someday there'll be
    A celebration throughout Oz
    That's all to do with me!

    And I'll stand there with the Wizard
    Feeling things I've never felt
    And though I'd never show it
    I'll be so happy, I could melt!
    And so it will be
    For the rest of my life
    And I'll want nothing else
    Till I die
    Held in such high esteem
    When people see me, they will scream
    For half of Oz's fav'rite team:
    The Wizard
    And I!
    (Full lyrics at:
    The Wizard and I Lyrics)
    While Glinda's wild dreams about herself seem to involve becoming effectual within the culture, Elphaba's seem to be based more on some sense of personal validation of her identity and specialness (Fi).

    Originally set to room with her sister Nessarose, Elphaba ends up being assigned to Glinda instead... someone she immediately loathes as everything she is not and representative of and a sellout to the system that has disregarded her throughout her life: Her initial, succinct but comprehensive complaint about Glinda, in contrast to Glinda's elaborate and socially delicate complaint about her, is expressed, simply, as "[she's] blonde."

    Elphaba is not a cold-hearted machinator by nature; despite her physical stigma and her treatment at the hands of her peers, she still feels passionately about injustice and suffering on a very individual level. Her next song is with the goatish Doctor Dillamond, who is showing disturbing signs of being afflicted with the other Oz animals with the curse of losing their human speech. Here, Elphaba (as an idealist) yet trusts her image of the Wizard as a father figure who wants to help and has the POWER to help others: "Doctor Dillamond - If something bad is happening to the Animals, someone's got to tell the Wizard. That's why we have a Wizard. (sung) So nothing bad.... It couldn't happen here in Oz." She can't imagine someone she has placed on a moral pedestal, a potential father figure and intelligent individual (not "small-minded" like the munchkins, in her estimation), would let her down by not reaching the same conclusions as her or sharing the same values. (Fi idealism/naivety)

    When Glinda sets Elphaba up to be embarrassed at the ball, she refuses to be cowed: She remains dancing on the ballroom floor as a way to affirm her own special uniqueness (Fi, standing alone), and the fact that Glinda joins her is why Elphaba bends to accept her as a friend despite their differences. In this case, Elphaba is "listening" to Glinda's heart (which she perceives as remorseful) rather than sticking solely with what Glinda did.

    Elphaba realizes that there is a spark between her and Fiyero, but by then Glinda has snagged him: The green-skinned girl watches from a distance, the lonely social pariah, and sings with sadness and pained acceptance rather than anger at her friend:

    Don't dream too far
    Don't lose sight of who you are
    Don't remember that rush of joy
    He could be that boy
    I'm not that girl

    Ev'ry so often we long to steal
    To the land of what-might-have-been
    But that doesn't soften the ache we feel
    When reality sets back in

    Blithe smile, lithe limb
    She who's winsome, she wins him
    Gold hair with a gentle curl
    That's the girl he chose
    And Heaven knows
    I'm not that girl...
    Her inherent fatalism/melancholy (typical of INP), aimed more at herself than others, is obvious here.

    When Glinda ends up compromising her identity by changing her name in a silly attempt to emulate Fiyero's connection to Elphaba (a gesture that Fiyero shrugs off), Elphaba feels so bad for her that she invites her to go along with her to the Emerald City.

    But here all of Elphaba's dreams are dashed / revealed as the daydreams they were.

    Instead of reinstating Elphaba into Oz society, the Wizard asks her to demonstrate her magical power by making a monkey fly... and then, when Elphaba's unrestrained spell creates a whole legion of winged monkeys who the Wizard now reveals he will use to spy on the animals -- beings with personal ties with to Elphaba -- the green-skinned girl is immediately devastated. The Wizard is not a good man at all; instead, he is a powerless charlatan who used her to violate and abuse the animals she loves. The personal Fi image of a man she respected has been shattered.

    In a furor, Elphaba flees with the magical book, triggering the castle alarms. In a brief lull before they're located, Elphaba and Glinda have it out: Glinda accuses Elphaba of ruining the carefully crafted image Glinda has been making for her (Fe), while Elphaba calls Glinda out as a brownnosing compromiser (Fi). Both women have strong values, but they are aimed in completely different directions.

    When Glinda pleads with her to just apologize to the Wizard, to salvage what they can, Elphaba realizes she now has passed the point of compromise. She no longer wants what the wizard has to offer -- in fact, she CAN'T allow herself to want it (an introspective Ji realization: "These are my values, thus here is what I can and cannot do in the process of remaining consistent") -- and now she has to take a new path:

    (spoken) I know:
    (sung) But I don't want it -
    No - I can't want it

    Something has changed within me
    Something is not the same
    I'm through with playing by the rules
    Of someone else's game
    Too late for second-guessing
    Too late to go back to sleep
    It's time to trust my instincts
    Close my eyes: and leap...

    I'm through accepting limits
    'Cuz someone says they're so
    Some things I cannot change
    But till I try, I'll never know!
    Too long I've been afraid of
    Losing love I guess I've lost
    Well, if that's love
    It comes at much too high a cost!
    I'd sooner buy
    Defying gravity
    Kiss me goodbye
    I'm defying gravity
    And you can't pull me down:
    Yet, even now, she still has personal loyalty to Glinda and sees the good intentions in her: "Glinda - come with me. Think of what we could do: together...They'll never bring us down! ...Well? Are you coming?"

    Glinda's refusal is heartbreaking to her, but Elphaba respects the decision maturely, without slandering her friend's character: "You too ... I hope [your decision] brings you bliss" -- and then leaps into the sky with her newfound power and identity:

    So if you care to find me
    Look to the western sky!
    As someone told me lately:
    "Ev'ryone deserves the chance to fly!"
    And if I'm flying solo
    At least I'm flying free
    To those who'd ground me
    Take a message back from me
    Tell them how I am
    Defying gravity
    I'm flying high
    Defying gravity
    And soon I'll match them in renown
    And nobody in all of Oz
    No Wizard that there is or was
    Is ever gonna bring me down!
    (Full lyrics at Defying Gravity Lyrics)
    A few years later, Elphaba has built her reputation as the "Wicked Witch," although actually she is still trying to perform acts of good apart from the system. (We see the PR machine in action against her in "Thank Goodness" when Madam Morrible lies blatantly to the munchkins about the events that occurred back in the castle a few years prior, leading to all sorts of absurd "urban myths" about the "wicked witch" including the idea that pure water will somehow melt her.)

    Unfortunately, it doesn't help matters that Elphaba's attempts to help people always seem to backfire. Her wheelbound sister Nessarose (AKA the Witch of the East) tries to exploit the munchkins in order to keep Boq's love, so Elphaba tries to heal her paralysis by creating magic ruby slippers that enable her to walk; yet this only leads Boq to feel more expendable, since Nessa has less need of him. Terrified of losing him, Nessa casts a love spell from the Grimmoire that almost kills Boq, and to save him, Elphaba inadvertently turns him into the Tin Man ... earning his [mistaken] enmity forever and eventually resulting in Dorothy's summoning and Nessa's death.

    Meanwhile, Fiyero and Elphaba realize their love for each other; and he ditches his fiance Glinda, which breaks the good witch's heart. Elphaba cannot help herself, she has been longing for love all her life and this is what her heart wants and she feels it is "right" ... but she still feels guilt and admits that, now, "just, for the first time, I feel ... wicked" (the war between the Fi sense of personal coherence conflicting with relational obligations with specific individuals).

    Fiyero is captured while trying to help Elphaba to escape from the mob, so she tries to use the Grimmoire to save him but thinks she has failed (although, with our knowledge of the Oz backstory, we realize she has saved him but not in the way she had expected). This results in a dark and self-deprecating where Elphaba wails over "one more disaster I can add to my generous supply?" If she is "special," it is only as an agent of destroying everything she loves; and her unlimited power, instead of changing the world, is only doing unlimited damage instead: "Every time I could, I tried making good, but what I made was a mess!" Her failure, rather than being blamed on social circumstance, is not directed at the culture but at her own moral character and flawed conscious choices:

    One question haunts and hurts
    Too much, too much to mention:
    Was I really seeking good
    Or just seeking attention?
    Is that all good deeds are
    When looked at with an ice-cold eye?
    If that's all good deeds are
    Maybe that's the reason why

    No good deed goes unpunished
    All helpful urges should be circumvented
    No good deed goes unpunished
    Sure, I meant well -
    Well, look at what well-meant did:
    All right, enough - so be it
    So be it, then:
    Let all Oz be agreed
    I'm wicked through and through
    Since I can not succeed
    Fiyero, saving you
    I promise no good deed
    Will I attempt to do again
    Ever again
    No good deed
    Will I do again!

    (Full lyrics at
    No Good Deed Lyrics)
    Attributing her mistakes to a flawed moral character than just as mistaken efforts, Elphaba embraces the role that society has cast upon her. Ultimately, the inherent power she thought she could use to make the world, in lieu of the social system, only corrupts and destroys as well. She can no longer trust herself.

    When she and Glinda meet for what ends up being the last time, her tune has changed: Her "unlimited motify" possesses a typical Si air of melancholy ... inevitable loss... because accepting reality means letting go of who she thought she was and what she could do:

    I'm limited:
    Just look at me - I'm limited
    And just look at you -
    You can do all I couldn't do, Glinda
    So now it's up to you
    (spoken) For both of us
    (sung) Now it's up to you:
    She pulls out of the entire business of "global goodness" to fake her own death and (in a scene that never made it into the musical) care in self-imposed exile for the animals she personally has a connection -- a new way to envision herself and accomplish good that does not involve the use of power.

    Her entire motivation is to follow her own internal moral compass, rather than follow and honor the accepted social standard and remaining within the system.
    "Hey Capa -- We're only stardust." ~ "Sunshine"

    “Pleasure to me is wonder—the unexplored, the unexpected, the thing that is hidden and the changeless thing that lurks behind superficial mutability. To trace the remote in the immediate; the eternal in the ephemeral; the past in the present; the infinite in the finite; these are to me the springs of delight and beauty.” ~ H.P. Lovecraft

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