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  1. #11
    @.~*virinaĉo*~.@ Totenkindly's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by developer View Post
    Something that I have been curious about for a long time is that in movies and books (like in real life) every MBTI type can be portrayed as a hero, but just as well as a vilain.

    A good example are INTJs who often are used as the quintessential villain character, but just as well may represent the smart hero (esp. in crime novels and movies). A particularly striking example may be "Silence of the Lambs" where both the villain (Lecter) and the hero (Starling) are usually typed as INTJ.
    Really? I agree with Lecter as INTJ, but Clarice comes off more as a spunky ISFJ. She could be something else, but INTJ?

    Quote Originally Posted by Mort Belfry View Post
    I've always wondered if there's a serial killer for every mbti type. I'd be surpirsed if there wasn't.
    Well, serial killer behavior can actually be distilled for patterns... so if there is a pattern attached, it means that some of the MBTI types are closer to that pattern and others are further away.

    I think any MBTI type can be twisted, sadistic, and/or murderous, but they will go about it in very different ways, and usually for very different reasons. Serial killer is a term usually used to refer to a particular type of killer.

    As far how morality finds its way into MBTI: Well, actually, "ethics" tends to find its way into the system. It is clear that each type has a general list of "good things" and "bad things." Some things that other types do are automatically read as wrong and sometimes even cruel and evil by a particular type; and vice versa. So the system does describe basic ethics, by explaining the relative values of each type.

    But morality itself is not just determined by type, it is also determined by upbringing, cultural values, religious imposition, and so on. So religious morality per se is really not attached to MBTIc. An ISFJ can be whatever religion he grows up in; an INTJ can believe in any religion she wants, regardless of being INTJ. I don't see them as being directly attached to type. It's attached to upbringing, life experience, and the particulars of someone's existence.
    "Hey Capa -- We're only stardust." ~ "Sunshine"

    “Pleasure to me is wonder—the unexplored, the unexpected, the thing that is hidden and the changeless thing that lurks behind superficial mutability. To trace the remote in the immediate; the eternal in the ephemeral; the past in the present; the infinite in the finite; these are to me the springs of delight and beauty.” ~ H.P. Lovecraft

  2. #12
    Senior Member developer's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jennifer View Post
    Really? I agree with Lecter as INTJ, but Clarice comes off more as a spunky ISFJ. She could be something else, but INTJ?

    On most MBTI websites she is one of the famous INTJs, and I tend to agree, at least partially. It's quite possible to consider F instead of T, but the way she solves Lecter's puzzles has pretty much N written all over it.

  3. #13
    insert random title here Randomnity's Avatar
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    I see heroes a fair bit of the time as NF. Most action heroes are SP, I think (xSTP generally). Maybe some xNTJs. Not too many INTP or SJ heroes, I think (at least I can't think of any).

    Villains, most are TJ at least.

  4. #14
    Furry Critter with Claws Kiddo's Avatar
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    After seeing Death Note and the perfect INTJ quintessential villain, in Light, I have to say they certainly do make terrifying villains. It was no surprise that it took an INTJ good guy to finally bring him down.

    Every type can be narrowed down to classic villains. For example, an SJ villain would be Magneto who is the anti do-gooder type, He believes in a righteous approach to getting what he wants, but his aims are for justice and a fair stake for his people. Another SJ villian would be the Emperor from Star Wars. An SP villain, like the Green Goblin, is less into plans and more into the moment when it comes to dispatching heroes. They are terrifying because of their spontaneity. Then you have your smart NT villains like Lex Luther who always seem to be out for their own self interest and who scoff at the idea of "for the greater good".

    Now NF villains are tough to pin down and I don't think there are many comic book versions. They tend to be the villains who fight villains. They are often the vigilantes and avengers. One of my favorite examples would be, the INFJ sniper in Phonebooth. It's horrifies me how easily I can slip into that character's skin. Only INFXs can understand that "I'll help you help yourself" passion.

    Then you have your heroes. You have your Boy Scout SJ hero, good ol' Superman. Fighting for justice and the American way. Or my personal favorite, good old Yoda from Star Wars. You have your NT hero, Batman, the detective and guy who has no problem hanging a dude off a ledge to get answers. You have SP heroes who range from James Bond, to Rambo, to just about any high action type. Then you have your NF heroes like Luke Skywalker, whose inner battle seems to be more paramount than the outer one. It's strange, but NF heroes are always the ones who are constantly being tempted to the dark side.

  5. #15
    @.~*virinaĉo*~.@ Totenkindly's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by developer View Post
    On most MBTI websites she is one of the famous INTJs, and I tend to agree, at least partially. It's quite possible to consider F instead of T, but the way she solves Lecter's puzzles has pretty much N written all over it.
    Not really. Perhaps as a lesser function. That's like saying S's aren't allowed to use their imagination without being N's.

    If you truly look at her, she's not really that good at the N stuff. Lechter has to really beat her over the head to get her to think like him; he breathes N, she can't put two and two together. Any N she expresses usually occurs in context of S stimulation.

    - She figures out where the pictures of the first girl are because she herself had a dancing music box and knew that a good hiding spot was in the top, underneath the cardboard.

    - It takes her forever to figure out that Buffalo Bill is making a woman suit... she only gets it when she sees the dress pattern RIGHT in front of her face.

    - She doesn't even see Jame Gumb as a real suspect until the moth lands -- another tangible S-style "clue" that fills her in.

    An N person is making all of these hunches as they go, before the tangible evidence is provided. Clarice is much more a dogged, hunt down each little fact sort of person.

    The one place where you can say, "Oh she figured out the anagram..." -- well, many xSFJs I've met enjoy doing puzzles like that... logic problems, word rearrangement, crossword puzzles, word finds.

    And note the F: She thinks in terms of relationships... relationship to lecter, relationship to her father, relationship to crawford, relationship with her friend, relationship to the icky head of the psych ward... She is constantly thinking about how the victims felt, tangibly, identifying with their feelings. She's not detached; she is very much immersed in a relational web. It colors all of her thinking. She doesn't want to let any of them down.

    Really, the biggest thing: An INTJ is one of the least likely types to steal a sheep from a man who trusts her and makes a foolish attempt to free it just by running away carrying it. That's a very big, typical, sentimental SF move -- not an NTJ strategy. At best, the INTJ would have tried to free the lamb "due to the indignity of it" or some sort of universal value... not just because she felt so bad for the vocal suffering of the lamb... and an INTJ would have planned something more likely to succeed, even when so young.

    INTJ = Jodie Foster in "Contact." (ironically, the same actress.) If you sense any detachment in Starling, I think it is mostly just a holdover from Foster herself (who is INxJ, I'm sure).

    Anyway... sorry for the derail.

    * * * *

    INTP villains don't do anything except design death machines. You would find them as the scientist or engineer who discovers the truths and invents the things that a truly motivated villain would use in his/her plans at domination.

    (I remember once seeing the "humor" issue of "What if...?" and they had Spiderman facing off against The Philosopher or some other weird villain in a study. Instead of fighting, the villain waxed philosophic as much as BlueWing does, for two entire pages, with Spidey occasionally making a reference to some established philosophical POV, which the villain would then counter... and the strip ended out of boredom for everyone... INTPs just make bad villains. They don't DO anything. )

    One probable INTP hero I remember is the ship's architect in Cameron's "Titanic" movie. Andrews, I think his name was, but he was thoughtful and kind, far-seeing... sort of an actualized INTP. You could sense he had benevolence towards everyone, could see everyone's view, and chose to save Rose and go down with the ship because he felt badly that he had failed in its design and now many lives would be lost... even though he seemed to acknowledge it was not his direct fault and that the ship should have been fine. Just a very sweet, transcendent sort of man.

    SPs do seem to dominate the action movie style stories. (Lots of SPs, for example, in the Mission Impossible movie series.)
    "Hey Capa -- We're only stardust." ~ "Sunshine"

    “Pleasure to me is wonder—the unexplored, the unexpected, the thing that is hidden and the changeless thing that lurks behind superficial mutability. To trace the remote in the immediate; the eternal in the ephemeral; the past in the present; the infinite in the finite; these are to me the springs of delight and beauty.” ~ H.P. Lovecraft

  6. #16
    Dhampyr Economica's Avatar
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    (Perhaps 'Clarice as INTJ' should get its own thread?)

    I think she's INTJ, but that said, I agree with the following:

    Quote Originally Posted by Jennifer View Post
    Really, the biggest thing: An INTJ is one of the least likely types to steal a sheep from a man who trusts her and makes a foolish attempt to free it just by running away carrying it.
    It was the only part of the character that didn't resonate with me.

  7. #17
    Rats off to ya! Mort Belfry's Avatar
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    I read somewhere that Voldemort was an INTP.
    Why do we always come here?

    I guess we'll never know.

    It's like a kind of torture,
    To have to watch this show.

  8. #18
    @.~*virinaĉo*~.@ Totenkindly's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Economica View Post
    It was the only part of the character that didn't resonate with me.
    Which is funny: Because it resonated with me. Even if I wouldn't have done it, I could still empathize with her deeply for doing it.
    "Hey Capa -- We're only stardust." ~ "Sunshine"

    “Pleasure to me is wonder—the unexplored, the unexpected, the thing that is hidden and the changeless thing that lurks behind superficial mutability. To trace the remote in the immediate; the eternal in the ephemeral; the past in the present; the infinite in the finite; these are to me the springs of delight and beauty.” ~ H.P. Lovecraft

  9. #19
    Dhampyr Economica's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jennifer View Post
    Which is funny: Because it resonated with me. Even if I wouldn't have done it, I could still empathize with her deeply for doing it.
    Oh, I could empathize. I just wouldn't have done it.

  10. #20
    Rats off to ya! Mort Belfry's Avatar
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    She was quite young when she did it. Perhaps wasn't a fully developed INTJ yet.
    Why do we always come here?

    I guess we'll never know.

    It's like a kind of torture,
    To have to watch this show.

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