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Thread: Michael Jackson

  1. #41
    Freshman Member simulatedworld's Avatar
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    Token...we've been over this...you're BLACK, you know how to play the bass guitar!
    If you could be anything you want, I bet you'd be disappointed--am I right?

  2. #42
    ♪♫♪♫♪♫ luminous beam's Avatar
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    I agree with ISFP. I can see the Fi function being used first and foremost, internally judging and evaluating things according to his own ideals, as opposed to Fe, which would adapt more to other's ideals (he was very strange, most evidently he did not adapt or conform to others). Se makes him very indulgent in the present moment, ex. plastic surgery, spending millions in Neverland ranch, Bubbles (lol). Ni, which probably helped his creativity as it's pretty abstract and can be a bit "out there" creating mental images and things at will. Te probably helped him structure himself in such a way that might've helped him achieve the perfectionism he desired.


  3. #43
    Senior Member NewEra's Avatar
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    That was a pretty good explanation, simulated.

    Quote Originally Posted by ajblaise View Post
    Black people are born equipped with perfect Se and rhythm.

  4. #44
    Freshman Member simulatedworld's Avatar
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    *bows*

    I actually play bass in this reggae band with a hardcore hippie ISFP frontman, and these MJ lyrics like in "We Are the World" sound exactly like his.

    Even when he's being idealistic about peace and love and such, there's no mistaking his position--he even says outright, "Obama is my leader" in one lyric (the dude in my reggae band, I mean.) NFPs are more likely to just imply metaphorically, build a little bit of a puzzle for you to ponder and hopefully come to whatever humanitarian/philosophical conclusion they wanted you to get. (For an example, see John Mayer or Brandon Boyd.)

    MJ's lyrics never have any such puzzles, and there's never any mistaking his well-intentioned meaning. He was astronomically successful because his music appeals so directly to people's emotions (and desire to dance to a beat) on a base physical level--no ambiguity here. Everybody can identify in some way if only he allows himself to.
    If you could be anything you want, I bet you'd be disappointed--am I right?

  5. #45
    Senior Member INTPness's Avatar
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    You make good points, simulated world. I was going to present some songs as examples, but then you showed how those lyrics could come from an ISFP. Another reason, I always thought he was N is because he cared so DEEPLY for humanity and for the world. A lot of people would probably dispute that and say, "If he cared so much, why did he hang his child over the balcony and do weird stuff with kids, blah, blah, blah". Bottom line, he was compassionate about humanity as a whole. He cared deeply about the plight of ALL children and of those that were hungry and in need. He was very hurt by various injustices that were happening around the globe.

    Now, I'm certainly not saying that a sensor cannot be all of those things, but it's been my experience that sensors are primarily concerned with what is directly in front of them. In other words, if they were going to fight injustices, they might focus on the community they live in or the individuals that they know personally. For example, when I talk to my ISFP g/f about global injustices, her response is usually something like, "We can't always worry about the whole world. There are people right here that we can help." She tends to take me AWAY from the global, big picture and into the more concrete, here and now. Every time I ever heard Jackson, it seemed that he was DEEPLY troubled/affected by the plight of humanity - mainly children (yes, this is probably because of his childhood, as you mentioned) - but children around the world - on a global scale. He undertook and helped initiate HUGE efforts so that he could make a difference worldwide. He didn't just want to be a better father to his own children than his parents were to him - he wanted to make the world a better place by affecting entire nations and continents. I don't know too many sensors that think like that.

  6. #46
    Plumage and Moult proteanmix's Avatar
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    When I type musicians one of my biggest sources for a type is their lyrics. First of all I look to see what the subject matter and styling of their lyrics are. Secondly, I look at what songs they choose to sing. Even though they may not write all their lyrics, once they get artistic and creative control they choose the songs they sing.

    These are the songs written solely by MJ:

    Don't Stop 'til You Get Enough
    Workin' Day and Night
    Wanna Be Startin' Somethin'
    The Girl Is Mine
    Beat It
    Billie Jean
    Bad
    The Way You Make Me Feel
    Speed Demon
    Liberian Girl
    Another Part of Me
    I Just Can't Stop Loving You
    Dirty Diana
    Smooth Criminal
    Leave Me Alone
    Heal the World
    Black or White
    Who Is It
    Give In to Me
    Will You Be There
    Speechless
    The Lost Children

    He co-wrote virtually everything else on his albums from Off The Wall and later.

    Based on these songs and his behavior I've always typed him as an INFP. I think some of his earlier songs reflect a youthful attitude which isn't easy to tell if it's Se or Ne. If I go by his music I'd say IsFP, but if I go by his behavior I'd say INFP. I just don't see an ISFP building a ranch and calling it Neverland where he could be an eternal Peter Pan and play with other children or pulling the fairly elaborate PR stunts he has. I don't see an INFP being the kinesthetic genius he was though which was a huge part of his appeal. And to dominate POP music you've got to appeal to a large audience which is predominantly sensor. That's a factor as well.

    Anybody read his autobiography?
    Relationships have normal ebbs and flows. They do not automatically get better and better when the participants learn more and more about each other. Instead, the participants have to work through the tensions of the relationship (the dialectic) while they learn and group themselves and a parties in a relationships. At times the relationships is very open and sharing. Other time, one or both parties to the relationship need their space, or have other concerns, and the relationship is less open. The theory posits that these cycles occur throughout the life of the relationship as the persons try to balance their needs for privacy and open relationship.
    Interpersonal Communication Theories and Concepts
    Social Penetration Theory 1
    Social Penetration Theory 2
    Social Penetration Theory 3

  7. #47
    Welcome to Sunnyside Mondo's Avatar
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    Okay let's look at the types he cannot be under any circumstance..

    INTJ/ISTJ/ENTJ/ESTJ/INFJ/ENFJ/ISTP/ESTP

    Given a stretch.. the other eight types have some plausibility.

    Introverted or Extraverted?
    Concrete or Abstract?
    Utilitarian or Cooperative?

    Personally, Michael Jackson definitely doesn't strike me as Cooperative.
    So NT or SP?
    Which do you think makes more sense?

    Most of you will probably say SP of these two- which is correct IMO. We have ISFP or ESFP.
    It really matters by how shy Jackson was. Ironically, the shyer he was- the more Extraverted he probably was in life- we have to figure out how much of his reclusiveness was due to him being socially anxious or was it due to a true desire to be alone- regardless of anxiety.
    MBTI Type: iNTj
    Enneagram Type: 3w4 sp/sx

  8. #48
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    Quote Originally Posted by INTPness View Post
    You make good points, simulated world. I was going to present some songs as examples, but then you showed how those lyrics could come from an ISFP. Another reason, I always thought he was N is because he cared so DEEPLY for humanity and for the world. A lot of people would probably dispute that and say, "If he cared so much, why did he hang his child over the balcony and do weird stuff with kids, blah, blah, blah". Bottom line, he was compassionate about humanity as a whole. He cared deeply about the plight of ALL children and of those that were hungry and in need. He was very hurt by various injustices that were happening around the globe.

    Now, I'm certainly not saying that a sensor cannot be all of those things, but it's been my experience that sensors are primarily concerned with what is directly in front of them. In other words, if they were going to fight injustices, they might focus on the community they live in or the individuals that they know personally. For example, when I talk to my ISFP g/f about global injustices, her response is usually something like, "We can't always worry about the whole world. There are people right here that we can help." She tends to take me AWAY from the global, big picture and into the more concrete, here and now. Every time I ever heard Jackson, it seemed that he was DEEPLY troubled/affected by the plight of humanity - mainly children (yes, this is probably because of his childhood, as you mentioned) - but children around the world - on a global scale. He undertook and helped initiate HUGE efforts so that he could make a difference worldwide. He didn't just want to be a better father to his own children than his parents were to him - he wanted to make the world a better place by affecting entire nations and continents. I don't know too many sensors that think like that.

    Ahh...ISFPs are perfectly capable of sympathizing with the plight of humanity. They aren't ESTJs.

    But seriously, I think this is not a good way to tell if The Gloved One was an INFP or ISFP.

    It's more to the point that his lyrics said things like "show them how funky and strong is your fight, it doesn't matter who's wrong or right, just beat it" and stuff like that. He had the straight-forward simplicity in his lyrics of an SP, I agree with SimulatedWorld.

    Michael also was extremely, extremely focused on things like dancing, personal image, and fashion. I'm not saying that an INFP couldn't be interested in those things, but really, I don't think to the extent that Michael was.

  9. #49
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    Quote Originally Posted by INTPness View Post
    I don't think Jackson is an S for 1 second.


    Why not? He was an ARTISTIC genius which is a very, very S strength. He was a musical Composer and a Peacemaker. ISFPs are known as Artists, Composers, and Peacemakers.

    He was a skilled dancer, a fashion maven, and a trend-setter. Michael's world was EXTREMELY visual, which is an S thing, too. He was physically flashy.


    .

    I've always related to "INxx" people when I see them in interviews and there was something about Michael that I related to. I could sense his uncomfortableness in an up-close interview (he had that "get me the heck out of here cuz I'm not comfortable exposing my inner self to the whole world" look/feeling to him). I could see that he had trouble stating things clearly when expected to come up with an answer on the spot, which is common for IN's because we usually need to look inward and think/ponder through things before we can state it clearly.
    ISFPs can have a hard time clearly articulating what they really mean to say, especially if it's something important to them.

    He saw things on a global scale, he saw the big picture. I know 2 ISFP's and they are jokesters and not the super-duper reflective/pondering types (they can be reflective, but it's not like a huge part of their personality, like it is for IN's).
    Ss are not all detail-obsessed, obsessive compulsive dummies. ESFPs sound much more like what you are describing in terms of jokesters not being very reflective..or if they really were ISFPs, did you know them well enough to make such a judgement?

    There always seemed to be a well of emotions and feelings and inner workings going on inside of Michael Jackson, when I saw him in interviews.
    ISFPs can have a well of emotions and inner workings. Notice the I and the F.

  10. #50
    Freshman Member simulatedworld's Avatar
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    ^ Good points mostly, but I don't see artistry as inherently more associated with S or N or any other letter/function.
    If you could be anything you want, I bet you'd be disappointed--am I right?

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