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Badass SJs

Joined
Jul 3, 2008
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INFP
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54
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so/sp
Gordon Ramsay- ESFJ (and he has the same freakish Si talent as my ISTJ of being able to taste something and know whether it's exactly the same as something he's tasted before or not... and his obsession with food roots and tradition....)

Strange, yeah, I'd initially thought istj because of the tasting thing, currently entj, as his Te is right there barking in your face, equipped in the best way to solve external problems, with creative Ni giving it a more humane, forgiving shadow than Si might. From what I've seen, he has a good number of esfp chefs on his show, who, while emotional, tend to shrug his shouting off (maybe because they're used to giving their own mini-fits - that is the theme for the gamma quadra, I think - of immediate release - emotional, sexual, physical, etc.).
 

Aleksei

Yeah, I can fly.
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Some more:

Captain Hector Barbossa (Pirates of the Caribbean, ESTJ)
Commodore James Norrington (Pirates of the Caribbean, ISTJ)
 

Speed Gavroche

Whisky Old & Women Young
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To drive the Cuddy point home:


Quote:
Cuddy:"When I hired you, I knew you were insane. I will continue to try and stop you from doing insane things, but once they're done. Trying to convince an insane person not to do insane things is, in itself, insane, so when I hired you I also set aside $50,000 a year for legal expenses. So far you've come in under budget."

This = Ni.

Not especially.

Cuddy is the ESFJ prototype. Her personality is totally at the opposite of the House's one, except that they are both confrontationals (E) while if she were ENTJ, she would have at least a few intelectual affinity with an NT like House, but one of the most notable trait of Cuddy is her total lack of intelectual interest. She's not open and interested at all with the speculating and conception process, wich is a trait that NTs, even ENTJs are supposed to have. She just want to care about the hospital, like she cared about her baby. She's highly concious of social and interpersonals dynamics, like House (ENTP) actually and they both share an high Fe. But Fe is submit to Ti with House while it's clearly the contrary with Cuddy who essentially use her intellect to conform peoples with global and colective values of harmony, rules, cooperation and caring. She's also very diplomatic, well mannered and worried about protocals and social norms, wich are not ENTJ traits. She's, just like Foreman, more concerned with her social role and responsabilities than with intelectual pursuits. Cuddy and Foreman are obviously SJs.

Also, Simon Tam seems more F. He's selfish but that does'nt necesarly mean he's T. Mace Windu is an ISFJ also, I've never seen any particualr abiliies to think rationally and logically with Mace Windu. And Darth Maul is a caricatural ISTP! How can you associate him with the rigid Darth Vader?

Others badass SJs

Eric Foreman (House M.D) ISTJ
Amber (House M.D) ESTJ
Chuck Norris ISTJ
Sid Vicious ISFJ
Andy Wharol ISFJ
Thomas Hardy ESFJ
Barry Mannilow ESFJ
Scrooge McDuck ESTJ
Marka Ragnos (Star Wars Expanded Universe) ESTJ
Freedon Nadd (Star Wars Expanded Universe) ISTJ
Kit Fisto (Star Wars Expanded Universe) ESFJ
Kanye West ESFJ
R Kelly ESFJ
Puff Daddy ESFJ
Sergeant Hartman (Full Metal Jacket) ESTJ
Uncle Phil (The Fresh Prince Of Bel-Air) ESTJ
Dana (Step by Step) ESTJ
Mitch Buchanon (Baywatch) ESFJ
Al Bundy (Married With Children) ESTJ
John Ross (Dallas) ESTJ
Barracuda (The A-Team) ISTJ
Til'c (Stargate SG-1) ISTJ
Obi-Wan Kenobi (Star Wars) ISTJ
Ice Cube ESTJ
Bing Cosby ISTJ
Sarah Michelle Gellar ESTJ
Cordelia (BTVS) ESTJ
Anya (BTVS) ESTJ
Regina George (Mean Girls) ESTJ
Lucy Van Pelt (The Peanuts) ESTJ
Captain Haddock (Tintin) ESTJ
Fullyautomatic (Astérix) ESTJ
Robocop ISTJ
Thomas Sowell ISTJ
 

strychnine

All Natural! All Good!
Joined
Jun 23, 2010
Messages
895
Cuddy is the ESFJ prototype. Her personality is totally at the opposite of the House's one, except that they are both confrontationals (E) while if she were ENTJ, she would have at least a few intelectual affinity with an NT like House, but one of the most notable trait of Cuddy is her total lack of intelectual interest.
I don't think we are watching the same show. If she isn't House's intellectual equal, no one is.

She's not open and interested at all with the speculating and conception process, wich is a trait that NTs, even ENTJs are supposed to have.
She's not as open as House, but that's a P/J thing. Te dom vs. Ne dom is the difference here. She is still quite open to have hired House in the first place. Remember, he was a good doctor who couldn't have gotten himself hired at a blood bank = bad reputation. However, Cuddy doesn't give a shit about his track record and hires him anyway. The reliability aspect, important to us SJs, doesn't seem to matter significantly to her.

I have another example of where she initially chases (ha) reliability, realizes there are better but less sure options, and goes after the less safe route. But I'd have to majorly ruin season 6 so...

She just want to care about the hospital, like she cared about her baby.
She cares about it because it's her job and she wants to be competent (NT) at it. She has power over it. Not because it's her baby, that's just what House thinks is the case.

She's highly concious of social and interpersonals dynamics,
No. She is drained by having to be conscious of social things. She is drained by having to be nice to people to actually keep the hospital running. She has to hold her tongue often when dealing with her staff. She forces herself to be sweet but she wants to be blunt.

like House (ENTP) actually and they both share an high Fe. But Fe is submit to Ti with House while it's clearly the contrary with Cuddy who essentially use her intellect to conform peoples with global and colective values of harmony, rules, cooperation and caring.
Only to the extent necessary to stop the hospital from going down in flames. She doesn't try to smooth over conflict unless it's going to end in one person leaving. There is no harmony for the sake of harmony.

She's also very diplomatic, well mannered and worried about protocals and social norms,
Not by nature. She forces herself to be this way so she can get people to conform to her will. She is "using Fe" to accomplish Te objectives. That's not how natural Fe is used. There is no Fe for the sake of Fe with her. It's subordinate.


I used to think she was ESFJ too but I've been sold on ENTJ lately. I realized that wanting her to be an example of a smart ESFJ isn't the same as her actually being one.
 

EJCC

The Devil of TypoC
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Others badass SJs
A lot of these I had completely forgotten about - but lots of excellent ones in there (e.g. Amber and Foreman), but what was your reasoning behind Kanye West being ESFJ? All that I know about the guy (discounting all of his posturing) is that he makes a lot of snap judgements before he gets enough information, and he's one of the most reactive celebrities out there.
 

Aleksei

Yeah, I can fly.
Joined
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sx/sp
I really don't think Foreman is ISTJ -- he's ENTJ. I have never once seen him fall back on his experience and training or be a dick about rules. He's a bit of a sourpuss in differentials and the like compared to the other fellows, but his MO is mainly to poke practical holes in House's zany theories (Te), often (but by no means always) on basis of what he believes will be the negative consequences of them (Ni). His Ni is indeed not very visible at all, but it's certainly better than his Si, and he does in addition show Se (under duress he tends to become dangerously reckless and rather House-like, and then there's the matter of his history as a car thief). I thought INTJ at first, because he is indeed quite reserved, but his Ni is too weak for dominant, his Se too strong for inferior, and his Fi... sucks. The man is a goddamn robot.

Penny: Thank you. Frankly I'm not sure Gavroche is watching the same show as the rest of us. In my House thread he tried to argue that House's dominant instinctual variant (Enneagram) is Social, which is frankly about as plausible as arguing House is an ESFP. I don't know what he's on but I want some of that.
 

skylights

i love
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my mom, ESFJ

yeah, i know you don't know her, but you should, because she is an incredible woman. i could talk about how awesome she is for pages. she's also really modest, but i'm not, so i will brag for her :D
 

skylights

i love
Joined
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my mom, ESFJ

yeah, i know you don't know her, but you should, because she is an incredible woman. i could talk about how awesome she is for pages. she's also really modest, but i'm not, so i will brag for her :D
 

Aleksei

Yeah, I can fly.
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Also, Simon Tam seems more F. He's selfish but that does'nt necesarly mean he's T. Mace Windu is an ISFJ also, I've never seen any particualr abiliies to think rationally and logically with Mace Windu. And Darth Maul is a caricatural ISTP! How can you associate him with the rigid Darth Vader?
Mace Windu- curt, businesslike, makes zero effort to make people comfortable. Certainly no form of Fe organizer.
Simon- Simon doesn't really show any Fe. I could expect an FP to be that viciously selfish, but not really an FJ.
Darth Maul- would an ISTP follow the Emperor's orders to his own death? C'mon, now.
 

Benny

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Sonny Corleone ESFJ? Come on man.
Darth Maul? I don't think so.
 

Aleksei

Yeah, I can fly.
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Sonny Corleone ESFJ? Come on man.
Yes, Sonny ESFJ. He was obsessively devoted to the Mafia tradition (Si), and showed marked empathy for the plights of others, as well as devotion to society's rules ("you can't kill a cop, Mikey") -- which would be Fe. Michael gets all Fi: "Who says? We're talking a dirty cop, a cop who's mixed up in drugs and rackets."

The only thing going for his usual guess (ESTP) is his hedonism -- and that alone does not an SP make.

Darth Maul? I don't think so.
One- he was a Force-user. That means he had to have intuited his end would come if he went to Naboo. He went anyway.
Two- in the novels, where he actually has dialogue and descriptions worth a damn, he's shown to be extremely Si-dependent. He relies on, and only on, his training. ISTPs by contrast rely on situational awareness (Se) and deduction (Ti).
 

Speed Gavroche

Whisky Old & Women Young
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One- he was a Force-user. That means he had to have intuited his end would come if he went to Naboo. He went anyway.
Two- in the novels, where he actually has dialogue and descriptions worth a damn, he's shown to be extremely Si-dependent. He relies on, and only on, his training. ISTPs by contrast rely on situational awareness (Se) and deduction (Ti).

You often make the mistake to rely some characteristics of a character with the MBTI box instead of rely this with his actual situation or uncontrolled experiences. For example "he is deductive because he is of that type", no, he is deductive because he is a doctor. "He rely on his training because he is of that type", no, Darth Maul rely on his training because he've almost never knew anything else. If wer follow your reasoning, every sith are supposed to be ISTJs. Same mistake with your typing of House's character, whre, if we followed your reasoning, every doctor would be supposed to be N or T "because thay are deductive". Wrong. Darth Maul don't follow the Emperor's odrer because he's faithful to the emperor but above all because of hs passion for the Darth Side, violence and hatred. He's also extremely flexible and expert in tactic (SP) while Palpatine is expert in strategy (NT) and Vader expert in logistic (SJ). Darth Maul is classified as a Chaotic Evil character, are ISTJs likely to be Chaotic Evil? Hell, no! By the way, there's a current pattern in fictions, where STJ vilains are often Lawful Evil, NTJ vilains are often Neutral Evil and STP vilains are often Chaotic Evil. See in Star Wars: Vader, ISTJ and Lawful Evil, Palpatine, INTJ and Neutral Evil, Darth Maul, ISTP, Chaotic Evil.

One- he was a Force-user. That means he had to have intuited his end would come if he went to Naboo. He went anyway.

Hem, I don't think it works like that. Actually, I've never seen any Force usedr able to really "see the future".

Two- in the novels, where he actually has dialogue and descriptions worth a damn, he's shown to be extremely Si-dependent. He relies on, and only on, his training.
He is dependant because he's fanatic, and know that Palpatine is stronger than him. And he rely on his training because he just know that, Palpatine wanted his power still limited.But that doe'snt mean he is an Si user.

ISTPs by contrast rely on situational awareness (Se) and deduction (Ti).
But it is his modus operandi!
 

Aleksei

Yeah, I can fly.
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You often make the mistake to rely some characteristics of a character with the MBTI box instead of rely this with his actual situation or uncontrolled experiences.
For one thing we aren't born into a type. Types, themselves, are analytical tools that describe specific behaviors. you're thus putting the cart before the horse. He is X type because he displays Y feature, he doesn't display Y feature because he is X type. For another, cognitive functions describe how we function -- thus how we might react to specific situations.

For example "he is deductive because he is of that type", no, he is deductive because he is a doctor.
There's nothing about being a doctor that should make one deductive, and Chase (I assume this is who you're talking about) is deductive because he is Ti. I admit I did fuck that one up.

"He rely on his training because he is of that type", no, Darth Maul rely on his training because he've almost never knew anything else.
Relying on what you know is precisely what Si does. Thank you for driving my point home.

He is dependant because he's fanatic, and know that Palpatine is stronger than him. And he rely on his training because he just know that, Palpatine wanted his power still limited.But that doe'snt mean he is an Si user.
Ti users are very rarely, if ever, fanatics, as they are compulsively driven to logically question everything. Relying on his training because he didn't know anything else is Si to the very core of it. Ti Se users don't learn how to use Ti and Se, they just instinctively do so. They improvise, because that is what those functions lead to. By contrast it is possible for a Te + Si user to create a passable imitation of Ti by creating a standard over time and analyzing on basis of that. It's how I analyze, mostly.

But it is his modus operandi!
How?
 

Betty Blue

Let me count the ways
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My SO, because what ever our differences he has an uncanny ability to
GET.THINGS.DONE
XSTJ.
 

Speed Gavroche

Whisky Old & Women Young
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For one thing we aren't born into a type. Types, themselves, are analytical tools that describe specific behaviors.

I know. But you must'nt confound abilities due to education, with actual preferences when judge, take decisions or collect information. An ENFP enginner or ESFJ enginner, for example, is able to use strong logic because he is educated for this, but that does'nt mean he is not more comfortable with value judgment.

There's nothing about being a doctor that should make one deductive, and Chase (I assume this is who you're talking about) is deductive because he is Ti. I admit I did fuck that one up.

Actually, I talked about Kutner. He's deductive because, as a doctor and member of the House's staff, it is what is expected from him. But it seems clearly the Kutner is more comfortable with taking decisions based on how he feel about it than on impersonal analysis.

Relying on what you know is precisely what Si does. Thank you for driving my point home.

Jesus+Facepalm.jpg


Ti users are very rarely, if ever, fanatics, as they are compulsively driven to logically question everything.

For me, to logically question everything is a way to represse my most dark pulsion, because I fear to become an Fe bomb like Hitler for example. But thhere's often a fanatics sleeping deep inside Ti users, and a Sith training can awake it up. By thed way, I know xNTPs who are objectivist fanatics, and ISTPs who are muslim fundamentalist. To be involved in a jihad where you can kill the ennemies of God for the sake of killing and be polygamous are attractive things for ISTPs.;) And to kill jedi for the sake of killing jedis is thed modus operandi of Darth Maul.

Relying on his training because he didn't know anything else is Si to the very core of it.

blank-facepalm.gif

He did'n know anything else because he was a slave of Palpatine from his childhood, and he act like he's trained to act because he know it's the most efficient way of acting. Are you stupid?


Ti Se users don't learn how to use Ti and Se, they just instinctively do so.

I have never said Darth Maul learned to use Ti and Se. Actually, he's more an Si learner according to what you said.



How can I answer to that dumb question? Am I suppposed to list every time he used Ti and Se? He's a lone force who destroy Black Sun and almost defeat two jedi just by analyse and improvize to situations in a step by step way. He is a tactical genius, nota a logistician like Vader.

In other hands, you hav'nt picked up all my arguments, but I'am accustomed.
 

Benny

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Yes, Sonny ESFJ. He was obsessively devoted to the Mafia tradition (Si), and showed marked empathy for the plights of others, as well as devotion to society's rules ("you can't kill a cop, Mikey") -- which would be Fe. Michael gets all Fi: "Who says? We're talking a dirty cop, a cop who's mixed up in drugs and rackets."

The only thing going for his usual guess (ESTP) is his hedonism -- and that alone does not an SP make.


He behaves like an ESTP, but he is devoted to the family and shows empathy so he's an ESFJ. "You can't kill a cop, Mikey" is your example of Sonny's devotion to the rules? I'm not convinced.
 

TheDude72727

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IxTx
Arthur (from Inception) was an ISTJ, I'd think.

He was immediately averse to the idea of inception, when Saito first suggested it. He believed it was impossible, and urged Cobb not to take the risk.

His job during preparation for the inception mission was to collect information about the subjects background.

Essentially, he was Cobbs right hand man, and the "work horse" of the group. The reliable one... at least in contrast to Cobb.

That stupid, weak willed bastard Cobb.
 

Savage Idealist

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Voldo from the Soul Calibur series: he can take on various strong warriors from all around Europe and Asia, while being physically blind and having his back face an enemy.
 
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