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Thread: Joan of Arc

  1. #11
    Senior Member KDude's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by KLessard View Post
    I've got nothing myself, just MBTI descriptions. I suppose typology got it wrong.
    About as hedonistic as we're described is that we are in touch with sensory impressions-but I dunno.. hedonism seems more of a specific expression of that. And besides, we are Fi types too.

    Anyways, I don't mean to sound too defensive. I guess, personally, I think it's kind of a downer to be associated with that. If I had to say it, I would say I've kept up far too long to let any sense of depth I have simply get stripped from me from NFs on this site. I resent it. I know they care about deep things too..for sure. I just.. don't know how to bridge the gap there. It's like some people are determined to claim it all for themselves.

    P.S. I'm kind of guilty of that too. Just in reverse. Quin's right XD

    As far as typology descriptions go though, read Lenore Thomson's or Naomi Quenk's books. IFP's are bundled together in usual MBTI talk (and not like Keirsey does... I am not a Sensor first and foremost. I am a Fi dom), and it's easier to see the N/S distinction in the chapters on them.

  2. #12
    Aspiring Troens Ridder KLessard's Avatar
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    KDude, could you be INFP with a stronger S than most NFs?

    Typology has already classified Joan of Arc as an idealist NF. I didn't. Is David Keirsey really a fool and the Enneagram as well for making her a Type One Reformer alongside Gandhi and Martin Luther?

    Joan of Arc was described by her peers as an abnormally pious child who would stop playing to go talk to God. She was suprisingly skilled intellectually for an illiterate peasant who understood Scriptures and theology so well she could puzzle the Inquisitors and bring them back to the roots of the Christian faith by unveiling Catholicism's inconsistencies. Most NF reformers use diplomacy to get where they want to go, but Joan lived in a time of war and violence. If there would have been no physical warfare, the French people would not have survived, they were simply defending themselves. Joan understood the need to act in the physical, but she was also in constant spiritual warfare being a woman of prayer. She hated violence too. She would weep and fast often after battles because she was overwhelmed at the thought of so many soldiers dying without confession. And as concrete and political as her intervention was, it seems obvious that Joan's motivation was an abstract desire to do God's will. Joan said she never killed anyone herself, and she didn't. She was holding the banner and cheering the soldiers.

    Is that satisfactory, Quinlan?

    But I believe Joan was servant of God, and you can't put God's work in a MBTI box.

    Joan of Arc by herself and her witnesses is an excellent read if you want the most accurate description and decide for yourself.

    I know ISFPs have deep values. Please share some more if you care. I would like to understand.

  3. #13
    jump sleuthiness's Avatar
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    I wonder if someone like ringo starr would object to being burned at the stake. Better than writing your own hit songs.

    Or maybe dave matthews.

  4. #14
    Senior Member KDude's Avatar
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    Ringo seems like he'd be much like.. Eric Idle on the cross in Life of Brian. I don't know why I'm associating them though.

    Hmm.. I appreciate the post KLessard, but I'm not sure I can talk about all of it (my beliefs/experiences... all I can say is they aren't exactly S like). I've typed as an N before.. I don't know though. It's something to think about (once again ).

  5. #15
    Senior Member Killjoy's Avatar
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    ISFP would seem appropriate... After all, she was illiterate.

  6. #16
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    I have read In several places she was an ISFP.
    Never seen INFP once. I am quite the fan Of Kiersey myself.. so I wonder how I missed that.

    In general, not everyone who has done something is an N..

    And just because you relate to something in someone, doesn't mean you must be the same type.

    This really has to stop.

  7. #17
    Cat Wench ReadingRainbows's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by KLessard View Post
    KDude, could you be INFP with a stronger S than most NFs?

    Typology has already classified Joan of Arc as an idealist NF. I didn't. Is David Keirsey really a fool and the Enneagram as well for making her a Type One Reformer alongside Gandhi and Martin Luther?

    Joan of Arc was described by her peers as an abnormally pious child who would stop playing to go talk to God. She was suprisingly skilled intellectually for an illiterate peasant who understood Scriptures and theology so well she could puzzle the Inquisitors and bring them back to the roots of the Christian faith by unveiling Catholicism's inconsistencies. Most NF reformers use diplomacy to get where they want to go, but Joan lived in a time of war and violence. If there would have been no physical warfare, the French people would not have survived, they were simply defending themselves. Joan understood the need to act in the physical, but she was also in constant spiritual warfare being a woman of prayer. She hated violence too. She would weep and fast often after battles because she was overwhelmed at the thought of so many soldiers dying without confession. And as concrete and political as her intervention was, it seems obvious that Joan's motivation was an abstract desire to do God's will. Joan said she never killed anyone herself, and she didn't. She was holding the banner and cheering the soldiers.

    Is that satisfactory, Quinlan?

    But I believe Joan was servant of God, and you can't put God's work in a MBTI box.

    Joan of Arc by herself and her witnesses is an excellent read if you want the most accurate description and decide for yourself.

    I know ISFPs have deep values. Please share some more if you care. I would like to understand.
    Ehm. He already did explain. Is it so bad the Joan was an S not an N?
    Does that make what she did "less" great? Because no offense intended but you see to be looking for selective evidence for your view point and not looking at the rest.

    Quote Originally Posted by Oedipa_Maas View Post
    ISFP would seem appropriate... After all, she was illiterate.
    Was that a seriouss statement?

    Quote Originally Posted by Arclight View Post
    I have read In several places she was an ISFP.
    Never seen INFP once. I am quite the fan Of Kiersey myself.. so I wonder how I missed that.

    In general, not everyone who has done something is an N..

    And just because you relate to something in someone, doesn't mean you must be the same type.

    This really has to stop.
    Quote Originally Posted by EffEmDoubleyou View Post
    St. Stephen took rocks and St. Sebastian took arrows. You only have to take some jerks on an internet forum. Nut up.

  8. #18
    Aspiring Troens Ridder KLessard's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Rainbows View Post
    Ehm. He already did explain. Is it so bad the Joan was an S not an N?
    Does that make what she did "less" great? Because no offense intended but you see to be looking for selective evidence for your view point and not looking at the rest.
    My viewpoint has nothing to do with this, I repeat, everytime I've seen Joan of Arc cited as an example in MBTI typology (books and official typology documents, not forum threads), she was associated with the Idealist temperament. Sorry for missing out on her being SP. This thread is the very first place I see her classified as such.

    I am not saying it would make her less great. Just that Quinlan found the previous arguments silly and unsatisfactory. I tried to give detailed evidence, that's all.

    To Arclight:

    From Keirsey's Please understand me (first edition):

    "INFPs have a profound sense of honor derived from internal values. The INFP is the Prince or Princess of mythology, the King's Champion, Defender of the Faith, and guardian of the castle. Sir Galahad and Joan of Arc are male and female prototypes of an INFP. To understand INFPs their cause must be understood, for they are willing to make unusual sacrifices for someone or something believed in."

  9. #19
    Probably Most Brilliant Craft's Avatar
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    Based on her drive + revolutionary actions + mystical "connections" + female + leadership + "witch-like" end + idealistic views, I'd say INFJ. I think she's too "crazy" to be INFP.


    ..with insufficient facts of course.

  10. #20
    Aspiring Troens Ridder KLessard's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Oedipa_Maas View Post
    ISFP would seem appropriate... After all, she was illiterate.
    ???

    Joan was illiterate because most people were in her place and time, not because she had poor intellectual skills or something. I doubt there was any elementary or high school in the 1420s Domrémy.

    The fact that she was so lucid when arguing with clergy and had such a clear understanding of theology without an education seems to point out to her intuition.

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