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  1. #1
    Yeah, I can fly. Aleksei's Avatar
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    Default The Pillars of the Earth

    Anyone read it?

    Tom Builder- ISFP, 3w4 sp/so
    Alfred- ISTP, 6w7 sp/sx
    Ellen- ISFP, 6w7 sx/sp
    Jack Jackson- ENTP, 7w6 sx/sp
    Aliena- ENFP 4w5 sx/sp at the beginning, transforms into an ESTJ 2w3 sx/so after being raped
    William Hamleigh- ESFP, 8w7 sp/so
    Prior Philip- ENFJ, 2w1 so/sp
    Waleran Bigod- INTJ, 8w9 sp/so
    Richard- ISFP, 4w5 sp/sx
    King Stephen- ESTJ, 3w4 so/sx
    Queen Maud- ENTJ, 8w7 sx/so
    Last edited by Aleksei; 07-20-2010 at 10:59 AM.
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  2. #2
    Senior Member chihuahuasrluv's Avatar
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    Default

    I like how you did Aliena's typing. I've been wondering how a traumatic event ( rape, death) can affect someone's personality type. I was told it doesn't, I disagree though. I'd be very interested to hear your thoughts on that.

    Great book and I'm enjoying the miniseries as well.

  3. #3
    Yeah, I can fly. Aleksei's Avatar
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    I certainly think a person's type can, and often does, change due to traumatic events. It makes sense, given that that kind of experience is very emotionally jarring -- it could easily affect your perspective of the world, you could start thinking and acting in a different way as a way to cope. A good example of this is probably Patrick Jane (ENTP 3w4 so/sx, turned INFJ 5w6 sp/sx). His Ti and Fe were already essentially tied, but his perception turned heavily inwards due to depression when his wife and kid died.

    In Aliena's case it seems to me that what William did to her was a jarring wake-up call to the cold, harsh reality outside her castle and the fantasy world she had constructed within it alongside her brother and her butler (I forget his name), and she took permanent refuge in her more "grounded" lower functions as a way to cope. I considered the idea her enneagram type had shifted to 3w2 rather than 2w3, but she really doesn't appear to thrive for excellence for the sake of her own validation, but rather as a way to take care of her brother like she had promised her father.

    So what do you think? Do you agree with my typings of the characters? I promise I won't pick a fight with you over it.
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  4. #4
    Senior Member chihuahuasrluv's Avatar
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    I agree on the typing & what you just stated.

    Quote Originally Posted by Aleksei View Post
    I certainly think a person's type can, and often does, change due to traumatic events. It makes sense, given that that kind of experience is very emotionally jarring -- it could easily affect your persoective of the world, you could start thinking and acting in a different way as a way to cope.
    Agrees so much. I wonder if infj/infp are more vulnerable to this since considering how they can retreat into their own world and considering an infp is a bit known for the rose colored glasses when it comes to people and the world to have it shaken so, how can an infp truly ever go back to how they thought.

  5. #5
    Yeah, I can fly. Aleksei's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by chihuahuasrluv View Post
    Agrees so much. I wonder if infj/infp are more vulnerable to this since considering how they can retreat into their own world and considering an infp is a bit known for the rose colored glasses when it comes to people and the world to have it shaken so, how can an infp truly ever go back to how they thought.
    Yeah, it makes sense. I figure INFPs would be most likely to take refuge in their lower functions like Aliena did and become ISTJs, whereas INFJs would probably become colder and turn into INTJs as a result.

    Of course though, an INFP or ENFP could simply keep their type, and gain a darker value set as a result. Scary thought...
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  6. #6
    Senior Member Ratsimoan's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Aleksei View Post
    Anyone read it?

    Tom Builder- ISFP, 3w4 sp/so
    Alfred- ISTP, 6w7 sp/sx
    Ellen- ISFP, 6w7 sx/sp
    Jack Jackson- ENTP, 7w6 sx/sp
    Aliena- ENFP 4w5 sx/sp at the beginning, transforms into an ESTJ 2w3 sx/so after being raped
    William Hamleigh- ESFP, 8w7 sp/so
    Prior Philip- ENFJ, 2w1 so/sp
    Waleran Bigod- INTJ, 8w9 sp/so
    Richard- ISFP, 4w5 sp/sx
    King Stephen- ESTJ, 3w4 so/sx
    Queen Maud- ENTJ, 8w7 sx/so

    I never experience- rape. But I have experience death and depression. But it never change or transform my personality or me. I'm enfp 4w5 ( like the character Aliena). I do believe traumatic experience can have such an impact on you that it seems like your personality has change but it hasn't. I never thought I would see true myself again but I did- thanks to 4w5. Maybe I'm special. One thing about 4w5, when we are going through our darkest moment, we hold on to who we are- " we will stay true to ourselves, no matter what". So maybe this Aliena was never 4w5. Maybe she's a 4w3. But I'm speaking from an enfp and 4w5 perception.
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    Death must be so beautiful. To lie in the soft brown earth, with the grasses waving above one's head, and listen to silence. To have no yesterday, and no to-morrow. To forget time, to forgive life, to be at peace."
    — Sylvia Plath (The Bell Jar)

    "Remember, remember, this is now, and now, and now. Live it, feel it, cling to it. I want to become acutely aware of all I’ve taken for granted."
    — Sylvia Plath

  7. #7
    Yeah, I can fly. Aleksei's Avatar
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    Everyone's different. 16 personality types can't capture the diversity of human personality -- they just describe the basic mesh of it.

    Aliena wasn't just raped. That night she realized, in a very nasty way, that her posh lifestyle as the daughter of a feudal lord, which she fantasized she still had, was over. She had to flee, had to pick her way through a new and unforgiving world, with her little brother in tow, and she suppressed her fanciful Fi as a way to cope -- taking refuge in the more useful Te and Si.

    I fucked up her enneagram something fierce though. She turned into a 6w7 sx/sp, rather than 2w3 sx/so. My bad. Alfred on the other hand is an idiotic 3w4 sp/so (rather reminiscent of Jayne Cobb).
    [SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]

    Teacher (Idyllic), ESE-IEI (Si-ESFj), SLue|I|, Sanguine-Melancholy
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    Inventive > Artistic > Leisurely > Dramatic
    7w6 > 4w3 > 9w8, weakside sp/so

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  8. #8
    Senior Member Ratsimoan's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Aleksei View Post
    Everyone's different. 16 personality types can't capture the diversity of human personality -- they just describe the basic mesh of it.

    Aliena wasn't just raped. That night she realized, in a very nasty way, that her posh lifestyle as the daughter of a feudal lord, which she fantasized she still had, was over. She had to flee, had to pick her way through a new and unforgiving world, with her little brother in tow, and she suppressed her fanciful Fi as a way to cope -- taking refuge in the more useful Te and Si.

    I fucked up her enneagram something fierce though. She turned into a 6w7 sx/sp, rather than 2w3 sx/so. My bad. Alfred on the other hand is an idiotic 3w4 sp/so (rather reminiscent of Jayne Cobb).
    I know personality are different. I wasn't debating whether she was an enfp but whether she was original an 4w5. Because a 4w5 will hold tight to their true self in their darkest hours or moments. Most times 4w5 (say enfp 4w5) will not turn dark and not suppress their fi or fe and not take refuge in their Te and Si. Now some 4w5 might disagree.
    [SIGPIC] [/SIGPIC]

    Death must be so beautiful. To lie in the soft brown earth, with the grasses waving above one's head, and listen to silence. To have no yesterday, and no to-morrow. To forget time, to forgive life, to be at peace."
    — Sylvia Plath (The Bell Jar)

    "Remember, remember, this is now, and now, and now. Live it, feel it, cling to it. I want to become acutely aware of all I’ve taken for granted."
    — Sylvia Plath

  9. #9
    Yeah, I can fly. Aleksei's Avatar
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    True, true. She could actually have been a 4w3, or 7w6.
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    Teacher (Idyllic), ESE-IEI (Si-ESFj), SLue|I|, Sanguine-Melancholy
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    7w6 > 4w3 > 9w8, weakside sp/so

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  10. #10
    Senior Member chihuahuasrluv's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ratsimoan View Post
    I never experience- rape. But I have experience death and depression. But it never change or transform my personality or me. I'm enfp 4w5 ( like the character Aliena). I do believe traumatic experience can have such an impact on you that it seems like your personality has change but it hasn't. I never thought I would see true myself again but I did- thanks to 4w5. Maybe I'm special. One thing about 4w5, when we are going through our darkest moment, we hold on to who we are- " we will stay true to ourselves, no matter what". So maybe this Aliena was never 4w5. Maybe she's a 4w3. But I'm speaking from an enfp and 4w5 perception.
    Would a 4w3 be able to swift from a enfp to estj. Though one could argue she was an infp who gave into her estj shadow side and stayed there but.... * waves hand around*

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