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  1. #21
    Crazy Diamond Billy's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Harold Saxon View Post
    Excuse me, but what in the hell does this have to do with anything? It's an entirely irrelevant statement, on par with "Patrick Bateman likes ice cream. An ENTP I know likes ice cream, so Patrick Bateman must be ENTP." Show me where Patrick Bateman expresses Fe rather than Fi (which he doesn't - he's in-tune with and understanding of his own feelings, yet does not understand those of others). Also show me where Patrick Bateman expresses Ti rather than Te (which he doesn't - his schedule is very rigid, organized, segmented, yet he never displays any fine-tuning of concepts, or logical deduction/extrapolation).
    The point I am making is that a messed up INFJ is very Se based. Especially in thw absence of empathy. When my Fe dies out from excessive draining I become much darker, extraordinaryily Se based and Ti based.

    His schedule is not kept by him also... but by his secretary whom he intends to marry one day. Bateman spends an inordinate amount of time in Ni Fantasy land. He uses Ti more then Te, have you read the novel? He utilizes his social life as a system. He studies it, how people react to each other and he comes to conclusions. He plays his social life like a game, not like he is in it actively organizing it or the people around him. he is a serious loner and seriously Ni based. His emotional explosions scream to me wounded Fe, because he doesn't go and hurt himself or hate himself, his anger is expressed to other people. he even says it, I want my pain to be inflicted upon others.

    He doesn't hate people, if you see how he reacts to people, he just has contempt and disgust for humans and people in general. He doesn't actively hate on people, his psychosis is completely random and triggered by other people. This all seems to me to be an expression of some dark twisted Fe, and maybe a small dose of Fi down the tracks of his processes. but not dominant Fi.

    He is certainly a messed up INFJ.
    Ground control to Major Tom

  2. #22
    Senior Member Harold Saxon's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Billy View Post
    The point I am making is that a messed up INFJ is very Se based. Especially in thw absence of empathy. When my Fe dies out from excessive draining I become much darker, extraordinaryily Se based and Ti based
    Right, and? How is this relevant? INTJs also have inferior Se.

    Quote Originally Posted by Billy
    His schedule is not kept by him also... but by his secretary whom he intends to marry one day. Bateman spends an inordinate amount of time in Ni Fantasy land.
    I was not referring to his work schedule. Note the opening scene of the film - the man has a methodical schedule every morning, a meticulous daily routine that no sane man could possibly follow. The man plans out literally everything he does, both at home and at work - very Te.

    INTJs often spend large degrees of time in Ni fantasy land. It is their dominant function.

    Quote Originally Posted by Billy
    He uses Ti more then Te, have you read the novel? He utilizes his social life as a system. He studies it, how people react to each other and he comes to conclusions. He plays his social life like a game, not like he is in it actively organizing it or the people around him. he is a serious loner and seriously Ni based.
    What you have described is, indeed, nothing more than Ni combined with Se. Forethought, treating life like a match of chess (Ni), mixed with observation of actions and details (Se). He makes no attempt to understand their emotions (Fe), realizing that these are things he cannot possibly comprehend. He also does not make fine distinctions or follow logical deductions through small nuggets of reasoning (Ti).

    You keep repeating "he is seriously Ni-based," by the way, as if INTJs do not have just as much Ni as INFJs. It makes you look rather silly.

    I have indeed read the novel, by the way.

    Quote Originally Posted by Billy
    His emotional explosions scream to me wounded Fe, because he doesn't go and hurt himself or hate himself, his anger is expressed to other people. he even says it, I want my pain to be inflicted upon others.
    An Fi type is less likely to hurt themself than an Fe type, simply based on the very nature of the functions - one being rooted in motivation towards the self (selfish), the other rooted in motivation away from the self (selfless). Show where he even remotely portrays understanding of the feelings of others/empathy, any form of communal organization, or any form of altruism - these are the defining features of Fe, and he shows none of them. Rather, he does display defining features of Fi, personalized values and ideals, albeit in a very unhealthy manner.

    Quote Originally Posted by Billy
    He doesn't hate people, if you see how he reacts to people, he just has contempt and disgust for humans and people in general. He doesn't actively hate on people, his psychosis is completely random and triggered by other people. This all seems to me to be an expression of some dark twisted Fe, and maybe a small dose of Fi down the tracks of his processes. but not dominant Fi.
    And here you contradict yourself. You state that he doesn't hate people, and then state that he has contempt and disgust for humanity (for people). This is precisely my point - he is not in-tune with the emotions of others (that is to say, not Fe), and even says so himself. He is in-tune only with his own feelings (that is to say, Fi). Random hating on people is not a part of the definition of any function, Fi included, nor is random psychosis (rather, the latter is a part of the definition of several mental disorders). INTJs do not have dominant Fi, by the way - they have tertiary Fi. Types with dominant Fi are INFP and ISFP.

    Quote Originally Posted by Billy
    He is certainly a messed up INFJ.
    Incorrect. Messed up INTJ.
    Last edited by Harold Saxon; 06-25-2010 at 01:44 AM. Reason: Fixed a typographical error.

  3. #23
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    Bateman is not an INFJ, jesus christ

    You can argue Hitler, but i think he's an ENxJ

  4. #24
    Senior Member Harold Saxon's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Requeim View Post
    Bateman is not an INFJ, jesus christ

    You can argue Hitler, but i think he's an ENxJ
    I definitely agree, Bateman displays nothing in the way of Fe at all.

    I intentionally ignored real-world examples, but I actually agree with the stated typing of him - Hitler does seem rather Ni-Fe, thus INFJ. An argument could be made for ENFJ, but note that he needed large bouts of time alone, and generally disliked company.

    If we are to include real-world examples:

    Adolf Hitler: INFJ
    Joseph Goebbels: ENFJ
    Pol Pot: INFJ
    Leon Trotsky: ENFJ
    Charles Manson: ENFJ
    Hugo Chavez (yes, I know that mention of him as a "villain" is likely to cause a flame war): ENFP
    Donatien Alphonse François, Marquis de Sade: ENFP (not so much a villain as a bizarre kinky freak, but his writings did at certain points eroticize/glorify rape)
    Ivan IV of Russia/Ivan the Terrible: INFP who became mentally disturbed later in life

  5. #25
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    Bartemius Crouch Jr/INFJ - From 'Harry Potter'

  6. #26
    Senior Member Harold Saxon's Avatar
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    I just thought of another:

    Darcia the Third - Wolf's Rain (INFP)

  7. #27
    Senior Member ZPowers's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Harold Saxon View Post
    Leon Trotsky: ENFJ
    Charles Manson: ENFJ
    Hugo Chavez (yes, I know that mention of him as a "villain" is likely to cause a flame war): ENFP
    I also disagree that Trotsky is any sort of villain, but hey, that's me.
    Does he want a pillow for his head?

  8. #28
    Senior Member KDude's Avatar
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    .. manson as an enfj. not really questioning it.. for some reason tho, that's even more disturbing than hitler as an enfj, who wasn't purposely grotesque or bizarre in his language.

  9. #29
    Member Serge's Avatar
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    The Operative from Serenity - INFJ
    Johari/Nohari wall! Thanks in advance for filling it out.

    "Taste. I have no taste. I don't like these tiny portions or your artful abortions of sound, sealed with a kiss, slathered in the sauce sarcastic. So go choke on your irony"
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    "Life for you, has been less than kind
    So take a number, stand in line
    We've all been sorry, we've all been hurt
    But how we survive, is what makes us who we are"


  10. #30
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    Osama Bin Laden - INFJ?

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