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  1. #1
    Dhampyr Economica's Avatar
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    Default Pulp frontman Jarvis Cocker - INFP?

    Okay, so this thread got me listening to music I haven't heard in a decade or more. A band I used to like (but not love ) was Pulp. Listening to the music now I'm totally getting an INFP vibe and I'm wondering primarily whether Jarvis Cocker, the lyricist and vocalist, is an INFP and secondarily how INFPs, especially male INFPs, relate to the lyrics/vocals.

    Here are some sample lyrics from the 1998 album This Is Hardcore:

    I'M A MAN

    Laid here with the advertising sliding past my eyes like cartoons from other peoples lives,
    I start to wonder what it takes to be a man.
    Well I learned to drink and I learned to smoke and I learned to tell a dirty joke.
    If that's all there is then there's no point for me.

    So please can I ask just why we're alive?
    'Cos all that you do seems such a waste of time
    and if you hang around too long you'll be a man.
    Tell me 'bout it. Your car can get up to a hundred and ten -
    you've nowhere to go but you'll go there again
    and nothing ever makes no difference to a man.

    (...)

    DISHES

    I am not Jesus though I have the same initials -
    I am the man who stays home and does the dishes.
    And how was your day?
    Is that woman still trying to do your head in?
    A man told me to beware of 33.
    He said, "It was not an easy time for me".
    But I'll get through
    even though I've got no miracles to show you.

    I'd like to make this water wine
    but it's impossible.
    I've got to get these dishes dry.

    (...)

    GLORY DAYS

    (...)

    Oh and I could be a genius
    if I just put my mind to it
    and I, I could do anything
    if only I could get 'round to it.
    Oh we were brought up on the Space-Race,
    now they expect you to clean toilets.
    When you have seen how big the world is how can you make do with this?
    If you want me I'll be sleeping in -
    sleeping in throughout these glory days.
    I remember also this incident as described by Wikipedia:

    Cocker invaded the stage at the 1996 BRIT Awards in a spur of the moment protest against Michael Jackson's performance. Jackson performed surrounded by children and a rabbi, while making 'Christ-like' poses and performing his then-recent hit, "Earth Song". Cocker and his friend Peter Mansell (a former Pulp member) performed an impromptu stage invasion in protest. (...) In response to the ensuing media scrutiny of the action, Cocker responded, "My actions were a form of protest at the way Michael Jackson sees himself as some kind of Christ-like figure with the power of healing... I just ran on the stage... I didn't make any contact with anyone as far as I recall."

  2. #2
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    Oh and I could be a genius
    if I just put my mind to it
    and I, I could do anything
    if only I could get 'round to it.
    Like I am staring into a lyrical mirror.

  3. #3
    Dhampyr Economica's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by SolitaryPenguin View Post
    Like I am staring into a lyrical mirror.
    Well, this is starting out very well. Thanks for confirming!

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    I guess elaborating a little bit more wouldn't hurt. I am notoriously vague most times.

    I used to go to local mall and grocery store parking lots and sit on top of my car, just watching people. I've recently stopped because it has gotten quite chilly, but I always loved to watch how people would act in their everyday situations. I was amazed (or disillusioned, verdict is still out) on how much I would be able to read these people in the time it would take them to go from their car to the shiny glass, sliding doors of the store.

    I always went away from those experiences feeling a certain disdain for humanity and the monotony of it all, which I would ultimately turn inward and realize I was doing the same thing, albeit more aware of it.

    That's pretty much how I read those lyrics, as a sort of "I'd like to enlighten you and show you how I see things, but I am too busy here in it, living it with you."

    There, I've gone and babbled. Darnit.

  5. #5
    Dhampyr Economica's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by SolitaryPenguin View Post
    I always went away from those experiences feeling a certain disdain for humanity and the monotony of it all, which I would ultimately turn inward and realize I was doing the same thing, albeit more aware of it.
    SYLVIA

    (...)

    Who's this man you're talking to?
    Can't you see what he wants to do?
    He thinks if he stands near enough then he will look as good as you.
    Oh, he don't care about your problems.
    He just wants to show his friends.
    I guess I'm just the same as him -
    I just didn't know it then.

    (...)

    ?

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    Great, more for me to introspect about. LOL

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    Enigma Nadir's Avatar
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    I'm posting this message as an INFX, though closer to the J scale than the P.

    I can't say I relate to these very well, though see below for "Sylvia".

    I am seeing some Fi, but no Ne in these lyrics. Mind you, it is introspective, critical. You can see the disconnect between the person's personal value-hierarchy and the things he's criticising. But there is no divergence (like in Ne) onto other things. The ranting is single-minded. He doesn't get any ideas relating to this jaded rant, doesn't ponder what "could be" (meaning possibility, not wishful thinking). But this shouldn't be taken as definite evidence towards a lack of Ne. And it seems to me that the parts which SolitaryPenguin originally quoted could apply for just about any unmotivated person with a sense of ego.

    "Sylvia" is interesting in that it reminds me of something I read about INFJs and Fe, from the "Lenore Thomson Exegesis Wiki." I quote:

    Hypothesis: INFJs typically use their Secondary Function, Extraverted Feeling, to criticize the ways in which people are benefiting each other as being one-sided or to deflate people's attempts to gain respect and admiration in their society by contributing to it. "Snicker, snicker, this fellow's trying to look all altruistic, but notice how he makes sure that other people notice every time he does anything kind? C'mon, this is so transparently self-interested."
    Link: INFJs

    This is something that I personally relate to, a great deal. Make of that what you will.

    Cocker's protest on the stage, on the other hand, looks more like the action of a possible ISFP. It is more rebellion than sacrifice or a similarly noble act that INFPs are supposedly known for. The Fi is apparent - it is done, because it's the right thing to do for this person. But the spur-of-the-moment nature of the decision would imply Se rather than Ne to me - living in the moment. Imagine surfing, and imagine that sudden rebellious act as a particularly large wave to master.

    Beware Forer. But that goes without saying.
    Not really.

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    That's an excellent point. I guess it is, as most art forms, subjective and all up to the eyes/ears of the viewer/listener. In the end, there is no true yes or no answer.

  9. #9
    Dhampyr Economica's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Nadir View Post
    there is no divergence (like in Ne) onto other things. The ranting is single-minded. He doesn't get any ideas relating to this jaded rant, doesn't ponder what "could be" (meaning possibility, not wishful thinking).
    How's this for INFP over ISFP?

    SOMETHING CHANGED

    I wrote this song two hours before we met.
    I didn't know your name or what you looked like yet.
    Oh I could have stayed at home and gone to bed.
    I could have gone to see a film instead.
    You might have changed your mind and seen your friends.
    Life could have been very different
    But then something changed.
    Do you believe that there's someone up above?
    Does he have a timetable directing acts of love?
    Why did I write this song on that day?
    Why did you touch my hand and softly say
    Stop asking questions that don't matter anyway.
    Just give us a kiss to celebrate here today.
    Something changed.
    When we woke up that morning we had no way of knowing
    That in a matter of hours we'd change the way we were going.
    Where would I be now if we'd never met?
    Would I be singing this song to someone else instead?
    I dunno
    But like you said
    Something changed.
    And it seems to me that the parts which SolitaryPenguin originally quoted could apply for just about any unmotivated person with a sense of ego.
    Content-wise, I think that's true, but for the life of me I can't shake the INFP vibe I get from his wistful, wry self-blame. I'm not sure how an INFJ would express their high regard for their own potential and what reason they would give for it not yet having been realized, but I feel comfortable asserting that an INTJ (at least this INTJ) would be more complacent and rationalizing.

    This is something that I personally relate to, a great deal. Make of that what you will.
    Maybe it's an NF thing?

    (FWIW I relate to it too, though 1) I'm sure I'm not quite as perceptive as the NFs and 2) I'm Disagreeable enough to call people on it when it bugs me enough. )

    Cocker's protest on the stage, on the other hand, looks more like the action of a possible ISFP. It is more rebellion than sacrifice or a similarly noble act that INFPs are supposedly known for. The Fi is apparent - it is done, because it's the right thing to do for this person. But the spur-of-the-moment nature of the decision would imply Se rather than Ne to me - living in the moment. Imagine surfing, and imagine that sudden rebellious act as a particularly large wave to master.
    Protesting what he perceived as Jesus imagery? Sounds to me like an INFP who hasn't come to terms with his own Idealist ambition.

  10. #10
    Enigma Nadir's Avatar
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    Economica,

    "Something Changed" indeed deserves further speculation. I'd suggest waiting for other INFPs to comment on it. The focus in those lyrics seems to be more the past than the future. (which is intuition's focus - note that the lyrics don't talk about what will happen now that the man and his beloved have met and spent time) It might be indicative of Si, though - tertiary function for INFPs.

    Quote Originally Posted by Economica
    Content-wise, I think that's true, but for the life of me I can't shake the INFP vibe I get from his wistful, wry self-blame. I'm not sure how an INFJ would express their high regard for their own potential and what reason they would give for it not yet having been realized, but I feel comfortable asserting that an INTJ (at least this INTJ) would be more complacent and rationalizing.
    INFJ, INFP, or not, admitting I'm a procrastinating bastard who doesn't apply himself, works for me.
    I used to be more self-pitying in the past, but not any longer, really. You could say that I prefer being brutally honest with myself. (No self-mutilation, though.)

    Quote Originally Posted by Economica
    Maybe it's an NF thing?

    (FWIW I relate to it too, though 1) I'm sure I'm not quite as perceptive as the NFs and 2) I'm Disagreeable enough to call people on it when it bugs me enough.)
    I'm thinking that it's primarily NJ and secondarily NP. And yeah, I too can occasionally be vocal about it.

    Protesting what he perceived as Jesus imagery? Sounds to me like an INFP who hasn't come to terms with his own Idealist ambition.
    Again, not necessarily an INFP (and one shouldn't consider such terms as "Idealist" as absolutes or baselines. After all, the INFP is a "dreamer.") Such self-centered behaivour as you cite would stem from Fi, not Ne or Se. Ne or Se would characterize the approach. And to me the approach is based very much on great sensory stimulation and attracting external attention to the self, (i.e. attention whoring, if you look past the negative connotation.) two things SPs, especially ESPs feel good about yet NPs, certainly INPs would rather not partake in.
    Not really.

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