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  1. #21
    Senior Member Moiety's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Tamske View Post
    Come on, let's not turn it into another N versus S thread, okay?
    In fiction, especially fantasy fiction, the N "deeper" IS better and IS reality... that's the cliché I want to attack here.
    Well in fantasy fiction it would sort of make sense, wouldn't it? Fiction is very much the realm of Ndom.

  2. #22
    not to be trusted miss fortune's Avatar
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    I like the anti-heroes more... though it might be because they're usually STs and I tend to identify with them more
    “Oh, we're always alright. You remember that. We happen to other people.” -Terry Pratchett

  3. #23
    Senior Member KDude's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by whatever View Post
    I like the anti-heroes more... though it might be because they're usually STs and I tend to identify with them more
    i like the good heroes. it's rarer in (western) fiction nowadays though. it's easier to find the antihero type (cool too).

  4. #24
    not to be trusted miss fortune's Avatar
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    like Captain Carrot in the Discworld books!
    “Oh, we're always alright. You remember that. We happen to other people.” -Terry Pratchett

  5. #25
    this is my winter song EJCC's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Tamske View Post
    ESTJ: bad, but too dumb to be really evil. A stick-in-the-mud boss who hinders the hero who wants to do things his way. Becoming an F can redeem this type.
    Sad but true. If they're bad guys, they're usually driven by greed or lust for power, and they're never ALL bad. Although I'd say that the redeeming factor is more often than not getting rid of the J; learning to embrace the ISFP's Fi-driven spontaneity, and give them the OK. They can be Professor McGonagall figures - uptight and rule-driven but nonetheless good-hearted.
    ISTJ: guard, plumber... who gives practical advice, but never gets an important role. Despite the TJ combo this one can actually be good (but never good enough for hero or mentor roles)
    It always seems to be the ISTJs, in fiction, who are so gullible and good at following orders that they cling loyally to the villain's cause despite being inherently good people.
    ESTP: friend of the hero, tavern guest who divulges some information needed for the quest, grunt in the villain's army who can be bribed.
    Don't forget the most common one: Smooth-talkin' con artist/ladies man!
    ISTP: no important roles, can play a part as weaponsmith.
    Oh, I'd say: lone wolf assassin. Think Wolverine, from X-Men (who I'm pretty sure is ISTP).
    ISFP: less cunning than the villain, the all-good FP combination, the FiNi angst: this is hero material.
    Yup! Like Harry Potter.
    ENFJ: a cunning manipulator (if more J)
    Great example: Bitchy teen girls in young adult fiction. Especially the leaders of popular cliques.
    INFJ: wise IN, good F but falls back at the crucial moment due to J: mentor material here.
    Also good love interest material, like INFP. e.g. Deanna Troi - the sensitive heroine.
    ~ g e t f e s t i v e ! ~


    EJCC: "The Big Questions in my life right now: 1) What am I willing to live with? 2) What do I have to live with? 3) What can I change for the better?"
    Coriolis: "Is that the ESTJ Serenity Prayer?"



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  6. #26
    Senior Member KDude's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by whatever View Post
    like Captain Carrot in the Discworld books!
    i've heard of those, but never read them. maybe i'll check it out in anime, the sensitive/pensive/moody Fi driven hero shows up often. Ichigo in Bleach or Simon in Gurren Laggan are ixfp at least. in the west, Buffy or Luke Skywalker..and yeah Harry Potter!^. the Crow is probably the closest one came to an antihero maybe (altho it took death for him to transform and rise to the occassion)?

  7. #27
    Senior Member Little_Sticks's Avatar
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    I think ISTPs make the best heroes. I'm not sure why. I think it has something to do with the following. This is how I see the types. Tell me what you think!

    INTJ(the judge): Acts unemotionally, is very independent, and very reflective and precise before making an action. Interesting when Fi shows with Te lead by an Ni strategy, belief, or vision. This tends to follow a lawful/neutral-good alignment. Makes a good hero only if their Fi is quite strong and in resonance with the feelings of those around and close to them.

    INFJ(the referee): Same as INTJ, except more emotionally engaging. Usually strongly believing in an ideal of how to fix human corruption or just fight against it. Tends to become a martyr and isn't particularly active to watch. I would say lawful/neutral/chaotic-good alignment.

    INTP(the eagle): Too detached from people. Is more spontaneously active than an INTJ, but is only loyal to those very few close to them. Does not really understand or enjoy people. And does not care at all what happens to those outside their scarce inner-circle. More than willing to sacrifice everything outside their circle for greater understanding or to uncover something about existence they didn't understand before. Not exactly a hero in this regard. More of a neutral-neutral/evil/good alignment.

    ISTP(the tiger): Detached and independent from people to protect the self and stay away from human corruption. Will use their their knowledge, talents, observational skills, and physical strength to remain independent and skillfully help balance the corruption of humanity with their internal values and belief of 'what goes around, comes around'. Is most thought of as a quiet tiger saving its energy for the right pounce or situation to act. Probably can fit chaotic/neutral/lawful-neutral/good alignment. If they are thought of as being in a bad alignment it is usually not the case and their Ti has just reasoned a set of rules or protocol that others deem bad, when in fact it is an affect of 'what goes around, comes around'. This type tends to have many faces, all with deep-rooted philosophies, logic, and talents that give them an edge and determined-direction in situations. This is fun for people to ponder about in a film or in person. You wait to see how they will respond to a situation you wouldn't know what to do in yourself. Makes an interesting and lovable hero.

    ISFP(the free bird): Wants to feel connected to the harmony of the world. Will look for that harmony and will not usually enjoy conflicts. The more conflicted their lives, the less sure they become about themselves. They make a better tranquil mother-nature figure that protects, supports, and encourages people. Because they don't enjoy conflict, they will harbor it inside until it explodes around them in a global disaster fashion. Can make a good hero if massive change is seen as a positive thing, but they will always feel unsettled when reviewing past conflicts, no matter how they turned out to them. Probably a chaotic/neutral/lawful-good alignment.

    ESFP(the actor): Usually sees life as a moment of experiences and seeks to maximize the enjoyment of such. Will play any role that is needed of them by another person as long as they feel they are living their lives like they are playing and enjoying many roles of the play of life. New experiences are the best source of optimism and fun for them. This type is also often a source of a good hero. The viewer becomes sucked into their experiences and relenting energy and optimism in everything they do. People tend to hate to see such a spirited person lose to the world around them, and if they must go down to the others around them, it is often of a samurai high-spirited reproach. Perhaps it is an inherent human desire to want to feel and express their emotions without fear of consequences that makes these types so fun to see as a hero. chaotic-good alignment.

    ENTP(Mad Scientist - Dr. Strangelove): This type usually sees the world as a sandbox of possibilities - and the best way to have fun with ideas is to smear Fe all over it. They like to excite themselves with possibilities and play the little angel and devil in your ears. Making something happen isn't as fun as it would be unless they are able to express that something to the world or have fun expressing their thoughts and ideas to others. If you put all the types in an empty room with a big button in the center that they had to jump on to press, the ENTP would be the first one to speak about the possibilities of what the button could do with extreme glee in all the horrible and wonderful things the button could do to them. If given a choice to leave the room forever and never know what the button does or press the button and find out, an ENTP would most likely have to PRESS THAT BUTTON. Probably a chaotic-evil/neutral/good alignment fits them best. Not really a good hero because no one ever really can tell if they are good or not.

    ESTP(The Adventurer): Like the ENTP, they seek to use Fe in their lives. But they aren't so interested in the possibilities of what the button will do as much as they are about those interesting people they enclosed with and the fan duct on the ceiling that they could crawl through and escape before the crazy ENTP decides to jump on the button. Would make a good companion for experiencing the places previously unknown. Is probably most suited for adapting to a new environment and will be the most resourceful in doing so. Probably can fit neutral/chaotic-evil/neutral/good. Makes a good hero when the ESTP is allowed the freedom and excitement to act how they want. They won't forget this and will feel happy protecting those that let them feel so alive, even if that means shortening their life.

    Okay, this is taking forever. I'm going to stop here.

  8. #28
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    The entire concept of MBTI correlating with d&d alignment is ridiculous, at best.

  9. #29
    Senior Member Little_Sticks's Avatar
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    ^ I posted that just for fun, dude. And it's regarding type in fictional heroes anyway, which I think is what this is about. Those are the cliches I've concluded upon anyway.

  10. #30
    Senior Member KDude's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Little_Sticks View Post
    ISFP(the free bird): Wants to feel connected to the harmony of the world. Will look for that harmony and will not usually enjoy conflicts. The more conflicted their lives, the less sure they become about themselves. They make a better tranquil mother-nature figure that protects, supports, and encourages people. Because they don't enjoy conflict, they will harbor it inside until it explodes around them in a global disaster fashion. Can make a good hero if massive change is seen as a positive thing, but they will always feel unsettled when reviewing past conflicts, no matter how they turned out to them. Probably a chaotic/neutral/lawful-good alignment..
    there's definitely a dislike of conflict (and no matter how much they get involved, staying in that mode is impossible). if someone is truly Fi dom though, they fight if they have to. there's nothing more important than their sense of rights and wrongs, and further, they are practical doers like other SPs. on top of this, there is no such thing as a "tranquil mother nature figure" in reality, and rarely in fiction even. ISFPs will not kid themselves into a pointless fantasy like that, nice as it is, or bullshit themselves in a sense of harmony when it does not exist. they are angered sometimes like all human beings can be, and when that happens, they will try to fix the problem. they're the most impulsive of all types too. lastly, it's that Ni that seals the deal and tells them what they need to do and how to do it - change and grow a pair of balls.

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