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  1. #11
    Reason vs Being ragashree's Avatar
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    Hmmm, there's a lot of truth in these characterisations in general. They certainly hold true for a lot of popular and genre fiction as the stereotypes fit people's explanations very nicely. However, I do feel an obligation at this juncture to reference the lengthy fantasy novel(s) I'm intermittently working on myself. There's almost a full Mbti range of characters overall, but featured among the major ones are:

    A truly evil and disturbed INFP (possibly INFJ, but INFP fits better). Main villain of the first part. Controls people by sophisticated, underhand psychological manipulation, and is extremely skilled at playing the victim to gain sympathy when her plans are thwarted.

    A good ENTJ, actually the strongest of the good characters, in the first part at least. Not the most preposessing or easy to sympathise with though, due to a tendency to be blunt and outspoken, and believe people fools.

    A good INTJ (high Fi though, she could easily be mistaken for INFP if you weren't paying attention). Utterly comitted to doing right, but has a somewhat idiosyncratic and creative interpretation of how this can be achieved, which makes her actually very effective. Not always the most personable of characters. Like the ENTJ, needs to be better judged through her actions than mode of speaking.

    An ESTP tragic hero, who uhesitatingly stands up for what he believes in when no-one else will, a very positive example of the type but doomed to fail due to being too impulsive and not thinkng plans through. The arch-enemy of a very negative (self-indulgent asshole who engages in constant one-upmanship) example of the type.

    See? It can be done! Mind you, I did make the heroine an ENFx, but we can't have everything, now can we?
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  2. #12
    likes this gromit's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by whatever View Post
    and the ISTJ cranky hermit one is great! it reminds me of watching mine babysit a while back!
    Your kisses, sweeter than honey. But guess what, so is my money.

  3. #13
    Writing... Tamske's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sytpg View Post
    Rule #3: Sensors are always dumber than Intuitives. Intuition sees the world on a deeper level you know (this is not my opinion).

    This is true. The problem you are having is in your definition of deeper and how you relate it to better in some way.
    See the discussion on "define intuition" thread.
    This "deep" or "connected" or whatever view of N isn't always the reality. Intuition can see universal gravity behind the falling apple and the rotating moon; but it can also see Mary in a toast burn. The false connections exceed the true ones, and you need your judging functions together to sift through them unless you want to worship toast burns.

    But of course, in fiction you can adapt reality to have all the magical connections you want. And you can adapt the intuition such that it indeed sees the deeper world and not just guesses. That's what I'm talking about.
    Got questions? Ask an ENTP!
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  4. #14
    Senior Member Moiety's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by whatever View Post
    not necissarily... proving that nobody seems to understand sensing

    if we're talking about depth it should be fair to say that introverts would be deeper than extroverts regardless of the S/N divide... Se and Ne are both shallow functions while Ti and Fi (and Si and Ni) are the deeper ones
    Oh sorry, actually have to edit my post. I didn't mean to say I agreed with the first sentence of the rule. I don't think S are dumber in any way. But I do think Ns tend to look deeper.


    And yes Is too.

    Quote Originally Posted by Tamske View Post
    See the discussion on "define intuition" thread.
    This "deep" or "connected" or whatever view of N isn't always the reality. Intuition can see universal gravity behind the falling apple and the rotating moon; but it can also see Mary in a toast burn. The false connections exceed the true ones, and you need your judging functions together to sift through them unless you want to worship toast burns.

    But of course, in fiction you can adapt reality to have all the magical connections you want. And you can adapt the intuition such that it indeed sees the deeper world and not just guesses. That's what I'm talking about.
    Sure. I didn't mean to imply we see the deeper truth in things. Only that we look deeper. Sometimes when we shouldn't, of course.

  5. #15
    not to be trusted miss fortune's Avatar
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    depends on what's being looked at really... whether one is pondering a physical or present thing or whether one is pondering some weird abstract thing

    I'm going to bet that if we're pondering a glass of wine, that I'll have the deeper insights on it (which is kind of cheating since I used to get paid for that )


    and let's not forget! the NTPs who get lost in their own labs!

    (a friend once had an INTP math professor who got so caught up in a theoretical mathematical principle while walking that he ended up walking all the way across the city... he had to call his wife to drive him home )
    “Oh, we're always alright. You remember that. We happen to other people.” -Terry Pratchett

  6. #16
    Senior Member Moiety's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by whatever View Post
    depends on what's being looked at really... whether one is pondering a physical or present thing or whether one is pondering some weird abstract thing

    I'm going to bet that if we're pondering a glass of wine, that I'll have the deeper insights on it (which is kind of cheating since I used to get paid for that )
    Again it's all a matter of how you define deeper. I'm not defining "deeper" as in any way "better". It's more about seeing meaning where there is no apparent meaning. Like looking at the red sky and equating that with bloodshed for example.

  7. #17
    not to be trusted miss fortune's Avatar
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    ah... you're refering to delusional!

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    “Oh, we're always alright. You remember that. We happen to other people.” -Terry Pratchett

  8. #18
    Senior Member Moiety's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by whatever View Post
    ah... you're refering to delusional!
    Much in the same that seeing facts where they don't exist is delusional, yes

  9. #19
    not to be trusted miss fortune's Avatar
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    everyone's delusional.... in their own way.... *singing*

    “Oh, we're always alright. You remember that. We happen to other people.” -Terry Pratchett

  10. #20
    Writing... Tamske's Avatar
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    Come on, let's not turn it into another N versus S thread, okay?
    In fiction, especially fantasy fiction, the N "deeper" IS better and IS reality... that's the cliché I want to attack here.

    The absent-minded NTPs aren't just fiction...

    There's also the perfect hero ENTJ. His only (adorable) weakness is that he's too outspoken.
    Got questions? Ask an ENTP!
    I'm female. I just can't draw women

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