User Tag List

First 23456 Last

Results 31 to 40 of 63

Thread: Famous Generals

  1. #31
    Whisky Old & Women Young Speed Gavroche's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2008
    MBTI
    EsTP
    Enneagram
    6w7 sx/sp
    Posts
    5,143

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Franz View Post
    based on what?
    Based on The Truth. Next question.
    EsTP 6w7 Sx/Sp

    Chaotic Neutral

    E=60% S=55% T=70% P=80%

    "I don't believe in guilt, I only believe in living on impulses"

    "Stereotypes about personality and gender turn out to be fairly accurate: ... On the binary Myers-Briggs measure, the thinking-feeling breakdown is about 30/70 for women versus 60/40 for men." ~ Bryan Caplan

  2. #32
    Reason vs Being ragashree's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2008
    MBTI
    Mine
    Enneagram
    1w9
    Posts
    1,770

    Default

    ESTJ seems good for Montgomery, I'd go with it. He was famed for winning battles with his meticulous advance planning, and an operational rigidity once in battle which often obstructed his own side's progress. He was also a stickler for efficiency, notably outspoken, rigid in his opinions; and so lacking in political tact (Te on overdrive?) that he was often in conflict with his colleagues, and the government went to some trouble to keep his divisive personal views from becoming public, mounting what amounted to a gagging operation against him while he was in high office.

    Quote Originally Posted by YourLocalJesus View Post
    To add:

    Julius Caesar - ENTJ
    Napoleon Bonaparte - ENTJ
    Gebhard von Blücher - EXTJ
    Georgy Zhukov - ENTJ
    Robert E. Lee - ENTJ (him being pretty pious made him a bit milder than usual, but it's there)
    George Washington - ESTJ
    Sun Tzu - INTJ
    William the Conqueror - ENTJ
    Ṣalāḥ ad-Dīn Yūsuf ibn Ayyūb (Saladin) - INTJ
    Baybars - ESTJ
    Gaius Marius - ESTJ
    Carl XII of Sweden - INTJ
    Joachim Murat (guy in my avatar) - XNTJ
    Jean-Baptiste Bernadotte - ENTJ
    Arthur Wellesley 1st Duke of Wellington - ENTJ

    There is not a coincedence that the ENTJ is called the fieldmarshal.
    Great field commanders are often ENTJs or ESTJs, the great, logical organizers.
    YLJ, that post was unbelievable! I don't doubt there are a lot of -NTJ generals, but you seem to have decided almost every famous military commander in history must be one on the basis that NTJs tend to make good ones, and that since they are good they must therefore be NTJs, rather than looking at specific personal traits in each case.

    To take one example, the person in your avatar, Murat, strikes me as a classic example of an ES_P. I would personally go with ESFP. He wasn't any kind of strategic planner, but a dashing, impetuous cavalry commander, extremely popular with his men, most notable for charging into battle, often with reckless abandon, and carrying all before him due to his vigorous, inspirational command, personal courage, and ability to quickly adapt to the needs of the moment. Murat's swiftness, courage, and unpredictability provided the perfect foil for Napoleon's grand strategic thinking. (Napoleon was probably indeed an -NTJ, I'm not so sure about the E bit though) He wasn't a sucessful grand commander himself when having to organise mixed forces, I don't believe he won a significant battle in his own right as king of Naples, and was decisively defeated at Tolentino by a weaker Austrian force.
    Look into my avatar. Look deep into my avatar...

  3. #33
    Courage is immortality Valiant's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2007
    MBTI
    ENTJ
    Enneagram
    8w7 sx/so
    Socionics
    EIE
    Posts
    3,919

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Halla74 View Post
    They are also called other things. Your SJ and NJ examples will do great when things go according to plan, but from I can tell, war rarely does, and I'd wager that a good portion of the vioctors of any significant combat have just as much chance as being NP/SP, and NJ/SJ.

    You know, you didn't take into account that it's often the SPs that makes things go astray and plans fail

    (Sorry, had to! )

    No, but what i'm saying is that it's their role.
    It's not my role, it's not ESTPs role, it's not INFPs role.
    Most good commanders are ExTJs not least because they are structured.

    Adaptation to very quick changes is usually more of a tactical scenario than a strategic one, and as such largely out of control for the general.
    A general mostly does large scale planning, instructs his subordinates (who may be any type anyone may wish, different jobs require different skill sets).
    It's the general's duty to have several plans in store, and detail changes for different parts of the scenario if something goes this way or that.
    It's the general's duty to supply his troops and provide other supporting functions to those fighting, such as artillery, engineers, air strikes, drone attacks, cruise missiles etc.


    I very much agree that the ultimate soldier would probably be an ESTP, because you guys seem to master the whole quick thinking/reaction and physical bit as well as being tough as nails quite generally.
    ExTJs make great generals, though. Because they're structured as well as logical, not just either.

    Mightier than the tread of marching armies is the power of an idea whose time has come

  4. #34
    Courage is immortality Valiant's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2007
    MBTI
    ENTJ
    Enneagram
    8w7 sx/so
    Socionics
    EIE
    Posts
    3,919

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by ragashree View Post

    YLJ, that post was unbelievable! I don't doubt there are a lot of -NTJ generals, but you seem to have decided almost every famous military commander in history must be one on the basis that NTJs tend to make good ones, and that since they are good they must therefore be NTJs, rather than looking at specific personal traits in each case.

    To take one example, the person in your avatar, Murat, strikes me as a classic example of an ES_P. I would personally go with ESFP. He wasn't any kind of strategic planner, but a dashing, impetuous cavalry commander, extremely popular with his men, most notable for charging into battle, often with reckless abandon, and carrying all before him due to his vigorous, inspirational command, personal courage, and ability to quickly adapt to the needs of the moment. Murat's swiftness, courage, and unpredictability provided the perfect foil for Napoleon's grand strategic thinking. (Napoleon was probably indeed an -NTJ, I'm not so sure about the E bit though) He wasn't a sucessful grand commander himself when having to organise mixed forces, I don't believe he won a significant battle in his own right as king of Naples, and was decisively defeated at Tolentino by a weaker Austrian force.

    NTJs can be brave, too. If i'd be a general, i'd be a cavalry general, no doubt.
    It's funny how some people think that brains and brawn cannot come together in the same package.

    I know all about his physical bravado thing, but it's stupid to think an NTJ is not able to excel in sports and being popular with the men.
    I agree that he was not a very good grand commander, but then again... Very few people out there can claim such a thing, NTJ, SFP or whatever they are.
    Grand commanders are few and far between.

    Mightier than the tread of marching armies is the power of an idea whose time has come

  5. #35
    Member
    Join Date
    Feb 2010
    MBTI
    enfp
    Posts
    41

    Default

    Murat ESFP

  6. #36
    not to be trusted miss fortune's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2007
    Enneagram
    827 sp/so
    Posts
    20,126

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by YourLocalJesus View Post
    You know, you didn't take into account that it's often the SPs that makes things go astray and plans fail

    (Sorry, had to! )

    No, but what i'm saying is that it's their role.
    It's not my role, it's not ESTPs role, it's not INFPs role.
    Most good commanders are ExTJs not least because they are structured.

    Adaptation to very quick changes is usually more of a tactical scenario than a strategic one, and as such largely out of control for the general.
    A general mostly does large scale planning, instructs his subordinates (who may be any type anyone may wish, different jobs require different skill sets).
    It's the general's duty to have several plans in store, and detail changes for different parts of the scenario if something goes this way or that.
    It's the general's duty to supply his troops and provide other supporting functions to those fighting, such as artillery, engineers, air strikes, drone attacks, cruise missiles etc.


    I very much agree that the ultimate soldier would probably be an ESTP, because you guys seem to master the whole quick thinking/reaction and physical bit as well as being tough as nails quite generally.
    ExTJs make great generals, though. Because they're structured as well as logical, not just either.
    you used to be cool....

    anyone who is a general has to prove themselves as adaptable and able to think quickly on their feet before they can get to those stages... things that ExTJs aren't particularly skilled at... and you've got to take into account that ANYONE can develop Te as well... I can use Te if I want to! It doesn't mean that I'm a Te user though :rolli:

    You're being a bit close minded and obtuse
    “Oh, we're always alright. You remember that. We happen to other people.” -Terry Pratchett

  7. #37
    Courage is immortality Valiant's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2007
    MBTI
    ENTJ
    Enneagram
    8w7 sx/so
    Socionics
    EIE
    Posts
    3,919

    Default

    I'm just a bit bewildered that people can't seem to accept the assigned roles of each type.
    Of course someone very talented can go outside of their natural confines.
    That's not what I am saying, i'm just saying that EXTJs quite generally would make better generals.
    Not because I am an EXTJ myself, I gave up that you know.

    Why the Generalissimo-hysteria? It's way cooler to be soldier, NCO, colonel... Whatever, as long as they deal with tactics, not just the grand strategy.
    The grand stuff is really boring. While it is important, it's not really action-oriented at all.
    Colonels and Majors have all the fun, I tell you.

    Mightier than the tread of marching armies is the power of an idea whose time has come

  8. #38
    not to be trusted miss fortune's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2007
    Enneagram
    827 sp/so
    Posts
    20,126

    Default

    no... the ISTP assasins have all of the fun

    I'm saying that you're being inflexible and close minded on people's abilities and functions... I've routinely beat xNTJs on Risk in the past
    “Oh, we're always alright. You remember that. We happen to other people.” -Terry Pratchett

  9. #39
    No Cigar Litvyak's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2008
    Posts
    1,787

    Default

    Flavius Aetius, xxTJ?
    Emperor Justinian, ENfJ?




    Love them.

  10. #40
    Senior Member
    Join Date
    Apr 2010
    MBTI
    INTJ
    Enneagram
    5
    Posts
    202

    Default

    It sounds reasonable to me that most famous generals (and perhaps generals altogether) have been EXTJs. Not all, but certainly a large percentage. They will tend to gravitate towards such professions.


    Quote Originally Posted by whatever View Post
    no... the ISTP assasins have all of the fun

    I'm saying that you're being inflexible and close minded on people's abilities and functions... I've routinely beat xNTJs on Risk in the past
    Bah, Risk has way too much luck involved. Try chess.

Similar Threads

  1. Famous Living NFs
    By Economica in forum Popular Culture and Type
    Replies: 144
    Last Post: 08-04-2009, 02:33 PM
  2. Famous living Sensers
    By Economica in forum Popular Culture and Type
    Replies: 67
    Last Post: 04-27-2009, 10:52 AM
  3. [ISTJ] Famous dead Sensors
    By labyrinthine in forum The SJ Guardhouse (ESFJ, ISFJ, ESTJ, ISTJ)
    Replies: 25
    Last Post: 04-11-2008, 01:10 PM

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
Single Sign On provided by vBSSO