Breaking Bad

[Riva]

But both science and MBTI attempt to describe reality, whereas fiction wants to exemplify ideas.

Science theorizes; whereas MBTI hypothesizes. Yes both attempt to describe reality but so does creationism. But until that day comes both will remain fiction and what not is best at exemplifying fictional theories than fiction itself?

I am not a denier of MTBI. However I believe - as so many others - that real people are more complicated to only indicate traits attributed to their MBTI, enneagram, instinctual variant types. But fictional characters are better at staying true to these stereotypical traits; unless the writers are making the character go through a personality change for any number of reasons such as: character development, maturity, plot twists, shock etc.

 

[The Great One]

I expressed my reaction to your premature surrender.


The point was that you had no argument in your response to Stephano (hence this post, a mirroring of your own words). I wanted to find out whether you are just too deep into it to realize that you forgot that your opinion needs evidence as well or whether you simply lack, say, the knack to reflect these workings even if the situation calls for it.

So what are you saying that because it is a fictional character he can't be typed because he isn't real?

Could you go into the specifics a bit more; rather than implying you've seen it when the two are interacting? You did say he 'constantly' use it. Nico does seem to have a point; you haven't forgotten, you just probably don't know/have much to back things up. But that was walt, this is hank. I will admit i'm an idiot for not seeing the obvious if you provide undeniable examples (atleast 5). *eagerly waits to admit stupidity*

I will get you some specific examples when I have more time. I am bogged down with classes right now. However, I can say this...

**Don't look at this people unless you have seen season 5, it contains spoilers.**

I originally thought Jessie Pinkman was an ESTP as well. However, later in the seasons I tended to see this strong Fi conviction in him. For instance, when the gang-bangers killed the little kid Thomas, there was this burning Fi conviction to avenge his death. Also, when it was discovered that Walt was the one that poisoned Brock, Jessie Pinkman went crazy Fi and turned on Walt and everything because he believed that it was the right thing to do.

However, I personally believe that the best example of Pinkman's Fi was when he just had this overwhelming Fi conviction that what he was doing was morally wrong. He literally went crazy and to try to appease his Fi he literally threw money out of the window because he believed the money was "blood money" and was mentally haunted by the fact that the money hurt so many lives to try to get it. This just seemed Fi as fuck to me.

Anyway, I don't really see that same moral conviction in Hank, and I tend to always see that in the FP types. I personally believe Hank to be an 8w7 as well, and one could say that the reason you don't see that Fi in Hank like the other ESFP's, is because he is an 8w7 and they don't look like the typical ESFP. However, a while back I was having a debate with soneone as to whether the character Tony Montana from "Scarface" is actually an ESFP as opposed to an ESTP. Scarface I believe is an 8w7 as well, but with Scarface, I believe that I could actually buy him as an ESFP. The character looks very much like a typical ESTP on the outside, but later in the movie he has this crazy Fi conviction not to blow up the kids and wife in the car when he is doing a mission for Sosa. Now to me this looked Fi as fuck. The bottom line is I just don't see this Fi conviction in Hank like I see in the other ESFP types.

 

[Hive]

So what are you saying that because it is a fictional character he can't be typed because he isn't real?

Your argument was "Walt displays Ni and Te", providing no reasoning or evidence whatsoever. Nicodemus mirrored your "argument" to show how pointless and unsubstantial it was, not to make a point about Walt's type.

Why you think he claims that fictional characters can't be typed is beyond me.

I do think Walt's an IxTJ though, I'm just not entirely sold on INTJ. I agree that Jesse's ESFP (and 6w7), probably the easiest character to type.

 

[Ginkgo]

On the contrary I believe fictional characters are truer to the limitations mbti than rl people (who change every second). Besides the truer the actor is to the role the better defined the character becomes.

For the most part, I agree with you. However, I also think this is a reflection of the fact that fictional characters often fall short of depicting decent character development.

(In no way am I saying that Breaking Bad lacks character development.) But, consider a character like House. He underwent radical changes over the course of several seasons and now everybody dogpiles on discussions about him with divergent theories.

So what are you saying that because it is a fictional character he can't be typed because he isn't real?

Technically, I agree with this. Those who agree with me probably participate in these kinds of threads for gits and shittles/ boredom. So you're going to run into situations where your argument isn't going to be as accepted as you think it should because you're unaware of unsaid predicates.

 

[Elfboy]

watched a little further. Gus is definitely 8 fixed.
INTJ 5w6 or 3w4>8w9 Sp/?? (probably Sp/So)

 

[Nicodemus]

So what are you saying that because it is a fictional character he can't be typed because he isn't real?

What unsung sang.

 

[The Great One]

Your argument was "Walt displays Ni and Te", providing no reasoning or evidence whatsoever. Nicodemus mirrored your "argument" to show how pointless and unsubstantial it was, not to make a point about Walt's type.

Why you think he claims that fictional characters can't be typed is beyond me.

I do think Walt's an IxTJ though, I'm just not entirely sold on INTJ. I agree that Jesse's ESFP (and 6w7), probably the easiest character to type.

I do agree that Walt has a certain SJishness about him in the first season. However, the Ni and Te show their head in the later seasons.

**Spoiler for anyone who hasn't seen all the episodes**

I believe that Walt shows the Ni and Te in his masterminding strategies that he uses. There are several instances of this in the show...

1. One of the best examples of this is when he took out Gus. The man literally uses Ni to foresee everything that was going to happen, before it happened and then created a master plan around that. He poisoned Brock with the "Lilly of the Valley" in order to recruit Jessie to his side. Then he used Jessie as a pawn to get to Gus. Then he stategized the whole scenario with Hector (the bell guy) and got Hector to blow up Gus. This was Ni<Te as fuck.

2. He also did the exact same thing in the last show, "Felina". He literally foresaw all of those guys in that room, and foresaw the exact positioning that he, Jessie, and the men would be standing in. He then created a spinning machine gun turret to take all of these guys out based on this knowledge of where they would all be standing.

The man is the master of these Ni<Te plots, that's why I'm more inclined to think of him as an INTJ.

 

[Shudder]

I do agree that Walt has a certain SJishness about him in the first season. However, the Ni and Te show their head in the later seasons.

**Spoiler for anyone who hasn't seen all the episodes**

I believe that Walt shows the Ni and Te in his masterminding strategies that he uses. There are several instances of this in the show...

1. One of the best examples of this is when he took out Gus. The man literally uses Ni to foresee everything that was going to happen, before it happened and then created a master plan around that. He poisoned Brock with the "Lilly of the Valley" in order to recruit Jessie to his side. Then he used Jessie as a pawn to get to Gus. Then he stategized the whole scenario with Hector (the bell guy) and got Hector to blow up Gus. This was Ni<Te as fuck.

2. He also did the exact same thing in the last show, "Felina". He literally foresaw all of those guys in that room, and foresaw the exact positioning that he, Jessie, and the men would be standing in. He then created a spinning machine gun turret to take all of these guys out based on this knowledge of where they would all be standing.

The man is the master of these Ni<Te plots, that's why I'm more inclined to think of him as an INTJ.

In the examples you used, how would an Ne-Ti person, like an ENTP, have acted differently than INTJ Walt? I'd assume it would be pretty similarly considering the fact that it's still N-T at use.

 

[Elfboy]

finished!

Walter: INTJ 6w5>8w9>3w2 Sp/Sx (could possibly see a really reactive 5w6)
Jesse: ESFP 6w7>8w7>2w3 Sx/So
Skylar: ENFJ 6w7>1w2>3w2 Sx/Sp
Hank: ES?P or ENTJ 8w7>6w7>3w2 So/Sp (possibly So/Sx)
Marie: E??P 6w7>2w3>9w8 Sp/Sx
Walt Jr.: ISFP 9w8>6w7>2w3 So/Sx

Tuco: ESTP 8w7>6w7>3w2 Sx/So or So/Sx
Saul: ENTP 7w6>3w2>9w8 Sp/So
Gus: INTJ some sort of 3w4/5w6/8w9 combo Sp/Sx (possibly Sp/So)
Mike: ISTP 8w9>6w5>2w3 Sp/Sx?
Jane: ??FP 7w6>4w5>9w8 Sx/Sp
Lydia: ENTJ 6w7>3w4>9w8 Sp/So
Todd: ?SF? 6w7?>2w3?>9w8 ??/??
Elliot: ENFJ 2w3>5w6>9w1 So/Sp

 

[Ginkgo]

finished!

Walter: INTJ 6w5>8w9>3w2 Sp/Sx (could possibly see a really reactive 5w6)
Jesse: ESFP 6w7>8w7>2w3 Sx/So
Skylar: ENFJ 6w7>1w2>3w2 Sx/Sp
Hank: ES?P or ENTJ 8w7>6w7>3w2 So/Sp (possibly So/Sx)
Marie: E??P 6w7>2w3>9w8 Sp/Sx
Walt Jr.: ISFP 9w8>6w7>2w3 So/Sx

Tuco: ESTP 8w7>6w7>3w2 Sx/So or So/Sx
Saul: ENTP 7w6>3w2>9w8 Sp/So
Gus: INTJ some sort of 3w4/5w6/8w9 combo Sp/Sx (possibly Sp/So)
Mike: ISTP 8w9>6w5>2w3 Sp/Sx?
Jane: ??FP 7w6>4w5>9w8 Sx/Sp
Lydia: ENTJ 6w7>3w4>9w8 Sp/So
Todd: ?SF? 6w7?>2w3?>9w8 ??/??
Elliot: ENFJ 2w3>5w6>9w1 So/Sp

A lot of 6w7s there...

 

[Elfboy]

A lot of 6w7s there...

yeah. the show is reactive as hell. lots of 6s and 8s

 

[Stansmith]

finished!

Walter: INTJ 6w5>8w9>3w2 Sp/Sx (could possibly see a really reactive 5w6)
Jesse: ESFP 6w7>8w7>2w3 Sx/So
Skylar: ENFJ 6w7>1w2>3w2 Sx/Sp
Hank: ES?P or ENTJ 8w7>6w7>3w2 So/Sp (possibly So/Sx)
Marie: E??P 6w7>2w3>9w8 Sp/Sx
Walt Jr.: ISFP 9w8>6w7>2w3 So/Sx

Tuco: ESTP 8w7>6w7>3w2 Sx/So or So/Sx
Saul: ENTP 7w6>3w2>9w8 Sp/So
Gus: INTJ some sort of 3w4/5w6/8w9 combo Sp/Sx (possibly Sp/So)
Mike: ISTP 8w9>6w5>2w3 Sp/Sx?
Jane: ??FP 7w6>4w5>9w8 Sx/Sp
Lydia: ENTJ 6w7>3w4>9w8 Sp/So
Todd: ?SF? 6w7?>2w3?>9w8 ??/??
Elliot: ENFJ 2w3>5w6>9w1 So/Sp

Todd seems more like a 9. He almost always maintains his composure, and he barely displays ambivalence.

 

[Elfboy]

Todd seems more like a 9. He almost always maintains his composure, and he barely displays ambivalence.

I could see that. his type was hard to peg.
what did you think of the rest of the characters?

 

[Doctor Cringelord]

Jane is ENFP, imo

 

[Stansmith]

[MENTION=5684]Elfboy[/MENTION]

Walter: INTJ 6w5>8w9>3w2 Sp/Sx
Jesse: ESFP 6w7>9w8>2w3 Sx/So
Skylar: ENFJ 6w7>1w2>3w2 Sx/Sp
Hank: ESTP 8w7>6w7>3w2 So/Sp (possibly So/Sx)
Marie: ESFP 6w7>2w3>9w8 Sp/Sx
Walt Jr.: ISFP 9w8>6w7>2w3 Sp/So

Tuco: ESTP 8w7>6w7>3w2 Sx/So or So/Sx
Saul: ENTP 7w6>3w2>9w8 Sp/So
Gus: INTJ 1w9-3w4-5w4 Sp/So (or 3w4-first)
Mike: ISTP 8w9>6w5>2w3 Sp/Sx
Lydia: ENTJ 6w7>3w4>9w8 Sp/So
Todd: ISTP 9w?>5w6-2w3 Sp/So

I don't remember Jane's character very well.

 

[The Great One]

In the examples you used, how would an Ne-Ti person, like an ENTP, have acted differently than INTJ Walt? I'd assume it would be pretty similarly considering the fact that it's still N-T at use.

ENTP's can be very similar, but the INTJ's are better at creating full-fledged master-minded plans. They literally plan out every detail to perfection. INTJ's are better at strategy than the ENTP's. The ENTP's however seem to be better at using tactics. They literally reach into their bag of tricks and use a series of tactics to get the job done.

 

[Stephano]

Why does everyone think that Jesse is a 6w7? He seems more like a 7w6 to me.
I originally thought Walter is an ISTJ, but his impressive ability to foresee what his and others actions would cause lets me think Ni.

 

[Galena]

Why does everyone think that Jesse is a 6w7? He seems more like a 7w6 to me.

I think 6w7, though admittedly a quick and dirty typing. I cannot see anything outside of the reactive triad, which leaves 4, 6 and 8. 4 and 8 are then eliminated because lol no. I would probe further if anything about cp6 glaringly didn't check out IMHO, but now I'm interested. What makes you think 7?

I originally thought Walter is an ISTJ, but his impressive ability to foresee what his and others actions would cause lets me think Ni.

Same here.

 

[badger055]

walter: INTJ
todd: ENTJ
jesse: ESFP
skylar: ESFJ
mike: ISTJ
saul: ENTP
walt jr: pancakes

 

[ChocolateMoose123]

Hank: ESTJ
Marie: ENFJ
Skylar: ISTJ
Walt: INTj
Mike: ISTP
Jesse: ESFP
Gus: ISTJ
Saul: ENTP