Firefly characters

[Benny]

Every time I read your post's ya crack me up

 

[Aerithria]

Heh, I'm definitely seeing the argument for ISFJ.

Simon (from Trash): You're in a dangerous line of work, Jayne. Odds are you'll be under my knife again, often. So I want you to understand one thing very clearly: No matter what you do or say or plot, no matter how you come down on us, I will never, ever harm you. You're on this table, you're safe... 'cause I'm your medic. And however little we may like or trust each other, we're on the same crew. Got the same troubles, same enemies, and more than enough of both. Now, we could circle each other and growl, sleep with one eye open, but that thought wearies me. I don't care what you've done, I don't know what you're planning on doing, but I'm trusting you. I think you should do the same. 'Cause I don't see this working any other way.

He's going to let bygones be bygones because of their social position on the crew? That's pretty much as Fe as you get.

 

[Resonance]

Heh, I'm definitely seeing the argument for ISFJ.

Simon (from Trash): You're in a dangerous line of work, Jayne. Odds are you'll be under my knife again, often. So I want you to understand one thing very clearly: No matter what you do or say or plot, no matter how you come down on us, I will never, ever harm you. You're on this table, you're safe... 'cause I'm your medic. And however little we may like or trust each other, we're on the same crew. Got the same troubles, same enemies, and more than enough of both. Now, we could circle each other and growl, sleep with one eye open, but that thought wearies me. I don't care what you've done, I don't know what you're planning on doing, but I'm trusting you. I think you should do the same. 'Cause I don't see this working any other way.

He's going to let bygones be bygones because of their social position on the crew? That's pretty much as Fe as you get.

Looks to me more like lecturing him on "what the solution is going to be." Or one could make an argument for Fi on account of the personal values.

If forgiving people for practical reasons is F then I'm as F as Snow White.

 

[uumlau]

Looks to me more like lecturing him on "what the solution is going to be." Or one could make an argument for Fi on account of the personal values.

If forgiving people for practical reasons is F then I'm as F as Snow White.

Yeah, key words: "I don't see this working any other way." This is a Te speech. The Te "style" often has a "take it or leave it" approach, because it is trying to deal with how to get things done, without much regard to how people feel about it. There is also, as you say, a statement of personal Fi boundaries: I will not harm others in my role as medic.

Fe would be more about the veiled threat: if you do wrong me, you'll be under my knife sooner or later, and I'll get even. In fact, I believe that is exactly how Jayne and other Fe/Ti users would read it - as a veiled threat. I don't read it as a veiled threat so much as Te-style exhaustion with having to be wary about another's unpredictable, malicious behavior. This is why Te comes out "harsh" as often as not: the enumeration of potential difficulties that might be encountered due to a lack of cooperation can often be heard as potential threats/punishments from an Fe perspective, even though no threat or punishment is implied. Te thinks of it as "if you touch the hot stove, you will burn yourself," basic cause and effect, not as "the stove will punish you for your transgression."

 

[Resonance]

Yeah, key words: "I don't see this working any other way." This is a Te speech. The Te "style" often has a "take it or leave it" approach, because it is trying to deal with how to get things done, without much regard to how people feel about it. There is also, as you say, a statement of personal Fi boundaries: I will not harm others in my role as medic.

Fe would be more about the veiled threat: if you do wrong me, you'll be under my knife sooner or later, and I'll get even. In fact, I believe that is exactly how Jayne and other Fe/Ti users would read it - as a veiled threat. I don't read it as a veiled threat so much as Te-style exhaustion with having to be wary about another's unpredictable, malicious behavior. This is why Te comes out "harsh" as often as not: the enumeration of potential difficulties that might be encountered due to a lack of cooperation can often be heard as potential threats/punishments from an Fe perspective, even though no threat or punishment is implied. Te thinks of it as "if you touch the hot stove, you will burn yourself," basic cause and effect, not as "the stove will punish you for your transgression."

Yups.

He comes across as a lot more "T" in Out of Gas. Not at all excited by the birthday cake but tries pretty hard (and awkwardly) to express appreciation. Tries to tell Inara what suffocating is going to be like when they're hours away from it. (lol)

After all this I'm starting to think Mal is pretty F.

 

[Kalach]

Looks to me more like lecturing him on "what the solution is going to be."

Have you guys never heard an ENFJ speak?

 

[uumlau]

Have you guys never heard an ENFJ speak?

Yep, I've heard 'em, and ESFJs and ISFJ and INFJs, too. Older ones can be more "no-nonsense" as a learned skill, just the same as TJs can learn better manners. Simon is young. This is not a sophisticated NFJ or SFJ style of speech, it's an NTJ speech, as given to someone whom he knows is very disinclined to cooperate.

It can be difficult, at times, to distinguish the Te from the Fe. The two often try to "sound like" the other, and the key to seeing whether one is "really" Te or Fe is how they do the opposite function "incorrectly".

Simon is too young to "fake" the other well, so I have to go with TJ, probably NTJ given his meds-stealing plan.

If he were ISFJ as you describe, I'd expect to hear him say something more like, "Hey, if you stop trying to mess with me and my sister, I promise that I'll treat you well when you're under my care as a medic. We both win, that way. That's fair, right?"

His speech is too weary of the mess, it doesn't intend to persuade. It sets boundaries. It doesn't try to reach an agreement. It is perhaps, however, far more persuasive, thereby. Te is at its strongest (persuasively) when the facts back you up.

 

[Aleksei]

Holy Crap, Fe alone is hardly, hardly, absolutely hardly the most altruistic of functions. Lordy, if hurting people was never an Fe thing, there'd be no FJs in the military, and probably no TPs in prison.

Si Fe can very easily be convinced that it's acting for the good of the nation. STPs in prison are Fe tertiary.

Fe is a rational, directive function.

That's Te. Fe is, by very definition, not a rational function. It is an ethical function, a feeling function. It says so right there on the title, Extroverted feeling, not thinking.

Heh, I'm definitely seeing the argument for ISFJ.

Simon (from Trash): You're in a dangerous line of work, Jayne. Odds are you'll be under my knife again, often. So I want you to understand one thing very clearly: No matter what you do or say or plot, no matter how you come down on us, I will never, ever harm you. You're on this table, you're safe... 'cause I'm your medic. And however little we may like or trust each other, we're on the same crew. Got the same troubles, same enemies, and more than enough of both. Now, we could circle each other and growl, sleep with one eye open, but that thought wearies me. I don't care what you've done, I don't know what you're planning on doing, but I'm trusting you. I think you should do the same. 'Cause I don't see this working any other way.

He's going to let bygones be bygones because of their social position on the crew? That's pretty much as Fe as you get.

Subtext failure. Let bygones be bygones? If he was gonna do that he'd have just ignored Jayne altogether; he wouldn't have prefaced it with the whole "you're gonna be under my knife a lot" speech, and he certainly wouldn't have brought his sister along. No, he confronted Jayne so Jayne would know he couldn't be fooled, and then let little sis do the threatening for him.

 

[JocktheMotie]

All judging functions are rational.

 

[Aleksei]

I don't find my own Fi to be very rational, frankly.

 

[Little_Sticks]

I don't find my own Fi to be very rational, frankly.

How long did it take you to figure that? Keep up the progress! :hi:

 

[Aleksei]

How long did it take you to figure that?

No time at all. My own rationality is Te-based.

 

[Little_Sticks]

No time at all. My own rationality is Te-based.

You're a hard shell to crack. Nice save.

 

[Kalach]

Yep, I've heard 'em, and ESFJs and ISFJ and INFJs, too. Older ones can be more "no-nonsense" as a learned skill, just the same as TJs can learn better manners. Simon is young. This is not a sophisticated NFJ or SFJ style of speech, it's an NTJ speech, as given to someone whom he knows is very disinclined to cooperate.

Well the FJs I'm used to are all under 25, and Simon's speech is unconscionably formal relationship-oriented. Wouldn't a Te-solution be to make a deal, not impose a deal? Extroverted thinking plus introverted feeling seems more like "Jayne, are you going to mess with me anymore? Why don't we make a deal--you don't mess with me or my sister and I don't mess with you next time you get hurt." Simon, by contrast, leaves the actual solution up to Jayne! He leaves Jayne to be as wild a card as he wants to be, expecting perhaps that Jayne will be suitably abashed at this display of, what from a surgeon amounts to "I (formally) love you"....?!?

Plus, where's Simon's inferior Se anxiety? He should be afraid of Jayne, not wearied by him.


EDIT: besides which doesn't Ariel show us Mal's solution to the question of Jayne being wearying ever again. And that solution looks a whole lot more utilitarian. And if an INTJ Simon didn't try something similar, it's because.... what, he respects Mal and the ship and is therefore okay with living in uncertainty?

 

[Aleksei]

Well the FJs I'm used to are all under 25, and Simon's speech is unconscionably formal relationship-oriented. Wouldn't a Te-solution be to make a deal, not impose a deal? Extroverted thinking plus introverted feeling seems more like "Jayne, are you going to mess with me anymore? Why don't we make a deal--you don't mess with me or my sister and I don't mess with you next time you get hurt." Simon, by contrast, leaves the actual solution up to Jayne! He leaves Jayne to be as wild a card as he wants to be, expecting perhaps that Jayne will be suitably abashed at this display of, what from a surgeon amounts to "I (formally) love you"....?!?

Nah, he just left the threatening up to his lovable, deadly little sister.

 

[Aleksei]

Enneagram and SLOAN types of the crew:

Simon- 6w5 sp/so, RC|O|EI
River- 5w4 sx/sp, R|L|UEI
Inara- 9w8 sp/sx, S|C|OAI
Book- 9w1 so/sx, RCO|A|I
Mal- 3w2 sx/sp, |S|CUAI
Wash- 4w5 sp/sx, SLU|A|I
Kaylee- 7w6 sx/sp, |S|CUAI
Jayne- 3w4 sp/sx, RCU|E|I
Zöe- 6w7 so/sp, R|C|OEI

 

[sculpting]

I find trying to type people on TV to be a really odd thing as they dont "snap" properly together most of the time. The top layer is the character, the bottom layer is the actor. If the two are the same they "snap" together and it feels real. Otherwise you get this weird disjointed feel.

Simon- enfp actor trying to play an INTJ
River- crazy ass nfp. the actor does an excellent job at craziness. Observe the flips in personality. I suggest the actor is an enfp as we do crazy quite well.
Inara- infj character, infj or entp actor
Book- infp character
Mal- very strange-an ENTP actor trying to play a strong TJ character

Kaylee- strange-an SFP character but doing a ISTP job, but I'd guess an SFP actor
Jayne- utterly bizarre. an esfp actor trying to play an ISTP ?? But instead of being clever like an ISTP would be, he comes across all warped and stupid, but quite funny.

These two were my favs:
Wash- (Is this the pilot guy?) an enfp playing an enfp-He snaps nicely
Zöe- (The pilot guys' wife?) an entp playing an entp-Again she snaps very nicely

note these two have a very fun dynamic chemistry. But if you ever want to see a beautiful portrayal of ENTP-ENFP relationship communication issues, watch the episode where the pilot gets drug off and tortured. There is a scene at the beginning where he and his wife are fighting.

the husband makes an Fi driven Te request. The wife replies in a very even Fe response of following the rules as the rules should be followed. Notice how calm she is on the surface. The husband gets more Te bitchy. The wife then slips into Ti and gets harsh. The husband replies back with a cuttingly nasty comment about there being three people in the relationship-smack. Also note that during the story she is ice cold-calm in spite of getting mel's ear in her hand-tert Fe. Note the husband is all about guns and killing people towards the end-tert Te. ENFPs make for really pissed off enemies in the short term. Pain makes us mean.

 

[Aleksei]

Simon- enfp actor trying to play an INTJ

I'm not sure the actor himself is ENFP. He seems pretty flat. Simon is ISTJ though.

River- crazy ass nfp. the actor does an excellent job at craziness.

Observe the flips in personality. I suggest the actor is an enfp as we do crazy quite well.

Unhinged INTP. Shows clear Ti (bible wrong...), has zero control of her own emotions, and is a psychic -- Fe by the very definition of it. Summer Glau herself is most likely ISFP.

Inara- infj character, infj or entp actor

ENFJ character, no idea about Morena.

Book- infp character

I can't see Book getting much more Ni-Fe if he tried.

Mal- very strange-an ENTP actor trying to play a strong TJ character

Other way around. Mal is an ENTP, played by an ENTJ actor utterly incapable of playing non-Te characters.

Zöe- (The pilot guys' wife?) an entp playing an entp-Again she snaps very nicely

Zoe is a very obvious ISTJ. Probably played by an ENTP yes, but her dialogue, thoughts and actions (as opposed to her demeanor) say SJ to the core.

As you mentioned it is indeed very difficult to separate a character's types from the actor's, but that's only if you attempt visual typology. An actor can change how the character acts, but he can't change the script.

 

[sculpting]

As you mentioned it is indeed very difficult to separate a character's types from the actor's, but that's only if you attempt visual typology. An actor can change how the character acts, but he can't change the script.

DAMN YOU ALEKSEI!!!!!!

okay I dunno about your ideas, however the above is an excellent point. However to do it this way Id need to print out the script itself and look through the text for consistency and wording.

You showed a Ti like precision in how you observing what they SAY, rather than what they are/do/were/become. I just see them as blurs, combinations of all of this that I have to piece out functionally.

(Zoe is totally an ENTP, because I think she is hot and sexy, yet simultaneously ice cold. Ti is soooooo precisely pointed and sexy. I adore ENTP chicks. If only I was an INFJ guy rather than an ENFP girl. Oh well....and yeah that doc guy would not have been a dr if the character was an ISTJ)

 

[Aleksei]

DAMN YOU ALEKSEI!!!!!!

okay I dunno about your ideas, however the above is an excellent point. However to do it this way Id need to print out the script itself and look through the text for consistency and wording.

Ahh, I see I see. Well, I could tell you why I think each character is the type that he is and you can work from there.

Mal is an ENTP played by an ENTJ rather than the other way around, for a few reasons: First his rather goofy sense of humor is very indicative of Ne-dominance, especially because of how prominently displayed it is in stressful or serious situations -- a Te dominant would be more focused on the task at hand. Second he lets things go almost instantly, which is indicative of Fe leadership. He also shows a consistent undercurrent of relatively weak, tertiary Fe, evidenced by his heroic antics, despite fancying himself a scoundrel. Finally there's the fact he's directionless, going, by his own admission, where the wind takes him. He has the highly directive and curt demeanor of a Te-dom, but his actions say ENTP.

Oh, and he's a total metalhead. He knows the Rime of the Ancient Mariner, which means he either reads Coleridge (unlikely), or he's an Iron Maiden fan.

Simon I believe is most likely ISTJ for reasons stated earlier in this thread. He doesn't plan past the task at hand (whereas INTJs plan for the very, very long term), and he polishes his plans to the point of perfection which indicates a preoccupation with details.

Zöe is too much of a follower, and too unsociable, to be anything but ISTJ. She never contradicts the captain, even at Wash's insistence. (Wash being too much of a pussy to do it himself).

Inara is likely an extrovert, because she appears to genuinely enjoy her job (which is as social as it gets), and she appeared to be having a pretty good time in Shindig (Kaylee was having the time of her life, obvious ESFP is obvious).

Book clearly plays the part of a pious, Fe-using holy man. Whether he is or not is never known (it could be an act).

You showed a Ti like precision in how you observing what they SAY, rather than what they are/do/were/become. I just see them as blurs, combinations of all of this that I have to piece out functionally.

that could be Ti, yeah, though it could be Te + Si as well. Ti, remember, is more about eking out what details mean rather than just noticing the details themselves. Ne, Ti and Si can work in tandem in a way thayt can resemble Ti, but isn't really.

(Zoe is totally an ENTP, because I think she is hot and sexy, yet simultaneously ice cold. Ti is soooooo precisely pointed and sexy.

I highly doubt she's ENTP on the grounds that she's unsociable, and a follower. She sometimes is nervous about Mal's harebrained schemes, but she nevertheless shows an absolute loyalty and willingness to follow him to the depths of hell if need be, that could only be SJ in nature. That means she could only be ISFJ or ISTJ, and she's far too curt to be an ISFJ.

I adore ENTP chicks. If only I was an INFJ guy rather than an ENFP girl.

What a coincidence, I adore ENTP chicks too.

Oh well....and yeah that doc guy would not have been a dr if the character was an ISTJ)

Hmm? How so?