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  1. #71
    Filthy Apes! Kalach's Avatar
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    Hippie.

    While it would be perfectly great to be recognised for how truly wonderful my cognitive functions are, perhaps it's better if Simon be INTJ. That way no one will see the real INTJs coming. They'll be too busy mocking the ISFJs for their "masterminding" skills and how easily overcome they are.

    Yes, broadly announce this figment of teleimagination. A fall guy was needed. Bonus too because in the revolution they'll attach themselves like limpets to the ENTPs and I won't have to talk to (deliberately ambiguous referencing) them. Shiny.
    Bellison uncorked a flood of horrible profanity, which, translated, meant, "This is extremely unusual."

    Boy meets Grr

  2. #72
    Yeah, I can fly. Aleksei's Avatar
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    Thank you for your humble (albeit utterly incoherent) submission.

    I am no hippie.
    [SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]

    Teacher (Idyllic), ESE-IEI (Si-ESFj), SLue|I|, Sanguine-Melancholy
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  3. #73
    Filthy Apes! Kalach's Avatar
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    It's a good thing Simon is more down-to-earth, eh? None of this re-envisioning nonsense. Nope, no reinventing the meaning of interactions for that boyo. INTJ all the way. He even made plans on several occasions.

    He may not be archetypal, but dammit, we love him.
    Bellison uncorked a flood of horrible profanity, which, translated, meant, "This is extremely unusual."

    Boy meets Grr

  4. #74
    Yeah, I can fly. Aleksei's Avatar
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    lol
    [SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]

    Teacher (Idyllic), ESE-IEI (Si-ESFj), SLue|I|, Sanguine-Melancholy
    Sage, True Neutral (Chaotic Good), Type III Anti-Hero
    Inventive > Artistic > Leisurely > Dramatic
    7w6 > 4w3 > 9w8, weakside sp/so

    Dark Worker (Sacrificing)
    Freewheeling Designer

    Hayekian Asshole


  5. #75
    Energizer Bunny Resonance's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Aleksei View Post
    There are quite a few healthy INTJs (INTJs with strong tertiaries especially) who would actually identify with Simon.
    Exacally.

    I'm thinking of one INTJ friend in particular. His sister is older, but he still has the same machiavellian-buts attitude.

    He's not ISFJ; that's laughable. Let's see if a profile matches up.
    ISFJs are characterized above all by their desire to serve others, their "need to be needed." In extreme cases, this need is so strong that standard give-and-take relationships are deeply unsatisfying to them; however, most ISFJs find more than enough with which to occupy themselves within the framework of a normal life. (Since ISFJs, like all SJs, are very much bound by the prevailing social conventions, their form of "service" is likely to exclude any elements of moral or political controversy; they specialize in the local, the personal, and the practical.)
    So, he's a doctor. Very much a 'serve other people', 'local, personal, practical' profession. There are reasons for people of every type to become a doctor. Is Simon a doctor because he loves to serve people? Or is he a doctor because he is the Firefly equivalent of a space-Jew, and really likes showing people up intellectually? He would have ended up one of the top doctors on a core planet. Not his home planet. He was driven by ambition, not duty.

    He offers his doctorin' skills as a bargaining chip and refuses to treat injuries unless his demands are met.

    ISFJs are often unappreciated, at work, home, and play. Ironically, because they prove over and over that they can be relied on for their loyalty and unstinting, high-quality work, those around them often take them for granted--even take advantage of them. Admittedly, the problem is sometimes aggravated by the ISFJs themselves; for instance, they are notoriously bad at delegating ("If you want it done right, do it yourself"). And although they're hurt by being treated like doormats, they are often unwilling to toot their own horns about their accomplishments because they feel that although they deserve more credit than they're getting, it's somehow wrong to want any sort of reward for doing work (which is supposed to be a virtue in itself). (And as low-profile Is, their actions don't call attention to themselves as with charismatic Es.) Because of all of this, ISFJs are often overworked, and as a result may suffer from psychosomatic illnesses.
    Nope. He is not shy about making sure the value of his work is respected.

    In the workplace, ISFJs are methodical and accurate workers, often with very good memories and unexpected analytic abilities; they are also good with people in small-group or one-on-one situations because of their patient and genuinely sympathetic approach to dealing with others. ISFJs make pleasant and reliable co-workers and exemplary employees, but tend to be harried and uncomfortable in supervisory roles. They are capable of forming strong loyalties, but these are personal rather than institutional loyalties; if someone they've bonded with in this way leaves the company, the ISFJ will leave with them, if given the option. Traditional careers for an ISFJ include: teaching, social work, most religious work, nursing, medicine (general practice only), clerical and and secretarial work of any kind, and some kinds of administrative careers.
    General practice? Not so much... his bedside manner is forced and artificial. Good memory, unexpected analytic abilities...meh.

    While their work ethic is high on the ISFJ priority list, their families are the centers of their lives. ISFJs are extremely warm and demonstrative within the family circle--and often possessive of their loved ones, as well. When these include Es who want to socialize with the rest of the world, or self-contained ITs, the ISFJ must learn to adjust to these behaviors and not interpret them as rejection. Being SJs, they place a strong emphasis on conventional behavior (although, unlike STJs, they are usually as concerned with being "nice" as with strict propriety); if any of their nearest and dearest depart from the straight-and-narrow, it causes the ISFJ major embarrassment: the closer the relationship and the more public the act, the more intense the embarrassment (a fact which many of their teenage children take gleeful advantage of). Over time, however, ISFJs usually mellow, and learn to regard the culprits as harmless eccentrics :-). Needless to say, ISFJs take infinite trouble over meals, gifts, celebrations, etc., for their loved ones--although strong Js may tend to focus more on what the recipient should want rather than what they do want.
    How embarrassed is he that River cuts open Jayne's chest? A little bit. It's more of an 'oh shit' moment than a 'omg river don't do that! you make us look bad!'

    Infinite trouble over meals? focus on what the recipient wants - at all? He tries, but more out of his perceived role as an elder caretaker than out of any internal personality characteristics (see Fundamental attribution error - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia)

    Like most Is, ISFJs have a few, close friends. They are extremely loyal to these, and are ready to provide emotional and practical support at a moment's notice. (However, like most Fs they hate confrontation; if you get into a fight, don't expect them to jump in after you. You can count on them, however, run and get the nearest authority figure.) Unlike with EPs, the older the friendship is, the more an ISFJ will value it. One ISFJ trait that is easily misunderstood by those who haven't known them long is that they are often unable to either hide or articulate any distress they may be feeling. For instance, an ISFJ child may be reproved for "sulking," the actual cause of which is a combination of physical illness plus misguided "good manners." An adult ISFJ may drive a (later ashamed) friend or SO into a fit of temper over the ISFJ's unexplained moodiness, only afterwards to explain about a death in the family they "didn't want to burden anyone with." Those close to ISFJs should learn to watch for the warning signs in these situations and take the initiative themselves to uncover the problem.
    Hates confrontation, does he? Doesn't jump into the fray after you, does he? Hides his emotions so as not to burden anyone? No, he hides the fact that he is transporting his sister as human cargo because that is not something you want your ride-share to know about.



    On the other hand, what about INTJ?

    To outsiders, INTJs may appear to project an aura of "definiteness", of self-confidence. This self-confidence, sometimes mistaken for simple arrogance by the less decisive, is actually of a very specific rather than a general nature; its source lies in the specialized knowledge systems that most INTJs start building at an early age. When it comes to their own areas of expertise -- and INTJs can have several -- they will be able to tell you almost immediately whether or not they can help you, and if so, how. INTJs know what they know, and perhaps still more importantly, they know what they don't know.
    Simon to the T so far.

    INTJs are perfectionists, with a seemingly endless capacity for improving upon anything that takes their interest. What prevents them from becoming chronically bogged down in this pursuit of perfection is the pragmatism so characteristic of the type: INTJs apply (often ruthlessly) the criterion "Does it work?" to everything from their own research efforts to the prevailing social norms. This in turn produces an unusual independence of mind, freeing the INTJ from the constraints of authority, convention, or sentiment for its own sake.
    This is a little harder to point out, because we don't really see much of what he is actually interested in (ie. medicine.) But, I think this is reflected in his plan in Ariel.

    INTJs are known as the "Systems Builders" of the types, perhaps in part because they possess the unusual trait combination of imagination and reliability. Whatever system an INTJ happens to be working on is for them the equivalent of a moral cause to an INFJ; both perfectionism and disregard for authority may come into play, as INTJs can be unsparing of both themselves and the others on the project. Anyone considered to be "slacking," including superiors, will lose their respect -- and will generally be made aware of this; INTJs have also been known to take it upon themselves to implement critical decisions without consulting their supervisors or co-workers. On the other hand, they do tend to be scrupulous and even-handed about recognizing the individual contributions that have gone into a project, and have a gift for seizing opportunities which others might not even notice.
    Well, Mal sure as hell isn't a slacker. But implementing solutions without regard for him? Yes, Simon tends to have that intellectual arrogance where he assumes others won't understand. And his praise of Jayne reallllly shows how much he valued his contribution...

    In the broadest terms, what INTJs "do" tends to be what they "know". Typical INTJ career choices are in the sciences and engineering, but they can be found wherever a combination of intellect and incisiveness are required (e.g., law, some areas of academia). INTJs can rise to management positions when they are willing to invest time in marketing their abilities as well as enhancing them, and (whether for the sake of ambition or the desire for privacy) many also find it useful to learn to simulate some degree of surface conformism in order to mask their inherent unconventionality.
    Yup, Simon certainly played the 'corporate ladder' game for a while. He does what he knows, even on the Serenity....even in the heat of battle. He knows what flies in a hospital environment, and pushes that to the limit.

    Personal relationships, particularly romantic ones, can be the INTJ's Achilles heel. While they are capable of caring deeply for others (usually a select few), and are willing to spend a great deal of time and effort on a relationship, the knowledge and self-confidence that make them so successful in other areas can suddenly abandon or mislead them in interpersonal situations.
    How many times has he been condescending to River when she clearly knows exactly what he's talking about? How many times has he said 'just what she needed to hear', without phrasing it like a logical argument?

    This happens in part because many INTJs do not readily grasp the social rituals; for instance, they tend to have little patience and less understanding of such things as small talk and flirtation (which most types consider half the fun of a relationship). To complicate matters, INTJs are usually extremely private people, and can often be naturally impassive as well, which makes them easy to misread and misunderstand. Perhaps the most fundamental problem, however, is that INTJs really want people to make sense. :-) This sometimes results in a peculiar naivete', paralleling that of many Fs -- only instead of expecting inexhaustible affection and empathy from a romantic relationship, the INTJ will expect inexhaustible reasonability and directness.
    In order to justify the lack of reasonability and directness coming out of River, he has to classify her as 'brain damaged' in his mind and treat her like a mentally handicapped person, even though she very clearly has full use of most of her cognitive functions. This is part of the reason he often doesn't take her prophetic babbling seriously.

    Probably the strongest INTJ assets in the interpersonal area are their intuitive abilities and their willingness to "work at" a relationship. Although as Ts they do not always have the kind of natural empathy that many Fs do, the Intuitive function can often act as a good substitute by synthesizing the probable meanings behind such things as tone of voice, turn of phrase, and facial expression. This ability can then be honed and directed by consistent, repeated efforts to understand and support those they care about, and those relationships which ultimately do become established with an INTJ tend to be characterized by their robustness, stability, and good communications.
    This more closely resembles the way he tries to communicate with River than any Fe or Fi description.
    The beauty of a living thing is not the atoms that go into it, but the way those atoms are put together. ~ rCoxI ~ INfj ~ 5w6 so/sp

  6. #76
    Yeah, I can fly. Aleksei's Avatar
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    yeah man simon is like totally isfj how could i not see it before

    i mean hes like all emo for his sister and shit
    [SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]

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  7. #77
    Energizer Bunny Resonance's Avatar
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    I'm watching the dvd extras right now. I'm really impressed that Joss asked Kaylee to gain 20 lbs at the start because he wanted her to look like a woman and not an airbrushed anorexic hollywood model.
    The beauty of a living thing is not the atoms that go into it, but the way those atoms are put together. ~ rCoxI ~ INfj ~ 5w6 so/sp

  8. #78
    Filthy Apes! Kalach's Avatar
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    You boys could take a closer look at your fear of teh Fe.
    Bellison uncorked a flood of horrible profanity, which, translated, meant, "This is extremely unusual."

    Boy meets Grr

  9. #79
    Yeah, I can fly. Aleksei's Avatar
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    o noes fe is gunna eat me

    save me kalach
    [SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]

    Teacher (Idyllic), ESE-IEI (Si-ESFj), SLue|I|, Sanguine-Melancholy
    Sage, True Neutral (Chaotic Good), Type III Anti-Hero
    Inventive > Artistic > Leisurely > Dramatic
    7w6 > 4w3 > 9w8, weakside sp/so

    Dark Worker (Sacrificing)
    Freewheeling Designer

    Hayekian Asshole


  10. #80
    Filthy Apes! Kalach's Avatar
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    INTJs don't scare you half so much as a nearly competent ISFJ. The Mastermind about to take over the world is eclipsed by the caring, gentle nurse attendant of your nightmares, huh? The cloying, suffocating, helpless... love. You'd label it INTJ to escape the sweet baby butterfly kisses?

    I love you, man.
    Bellison uncorked a flood of horrible profanity, which, translated, meant, "This is extremely unusual."

    Boy meets Grr

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