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  1. #61
    Filthy Apes! Kalach's Avatar
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    Just out of interest then, what do you think ordering people around, overtly invoking the concept of "crew" as if it were meaningful, and claiming "this is my ship" all add up to? And all the cowboy traditions of speaking yer mind and saying what you mean and helping the wimmin folk and being the ornery fallguy for every honourable cause as long as it's his kinda stupid?

    None of which he learned in the military. None of which he almost totally and completely guides his life by, right down to the military uniform he continues to wear. No, he's a free spirit, wafting wherever the North wind blows him. He has more than two facial expressions, and I guess if there ever was a season two we'd have heard a third tone of voice.





    Tip for all you functionalists out there: if you'd like to privileged extroverted intuition, you can say introverted intuition is like extroverted intuition just really, really slow...

    meaning there's no way an INTJ Simon would take in his sister's utterances and by default spend some time asking himself what did they really mean, what was the real underlying whole that they masked, no, he'd just take them at face value. He'd totally occupy his introverted intuition with rehashing familiar medical techniques. Because that's what ISFJ INTJs do. Right? That extroverted thinking would not focus on presented objects, like say, nutcase sister utterances, things that indicated state of mind, and relative effect of drugs and trauma on condition of mind, and the introverted intuition would not look for the true nature of those things. No, an Ni/Te combination would be all about the comforting and the loving and the containing of expressions. Because that's what we do. Because we love you. And we want to care for you. Because you're our sister. And we loves you. All of you. Even if you don't know it, or recognise us for our sacrifice. We are INTJ, and we support YOU!




    You have annoyed me, plebs. Your efforts to dimish what an INTJ is is rivalled only by my determination to view you as stupid persons. Feel my warm embrace and whiny voice of sincere selfless concern for your wellbeing.
    Bellison uncorked a flood of horrible profanity, which, translated, meant, "This is extremely unusual."

    Boy meets Grr

  2. #62
    Energizer Bunny Resonance's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kalach View Post
    An INTJ would enlist her cooperation in her cure. He'd demand it, even. And grow ever more weary of her issues as solution after solution failed.
    That's what he does though..?

    Quote Originally Posted by Kalach View Post
    So he'd listen to her when she spoke, because she's the only one who offers clues above and beyond what physical symptoms she presents, and eventually INTJ doctor-brother would craft some response around all the damn clues she keeps tossing at him. Simon, by contrast, more or less just instructs her to not have bad thoughts.

    Dr. Simon Tam: But I think when they triggered you, it somehow brought this up. This memory.
    River Tam: It isn't mine. The memory, it isn't mine. And I shouldn't have to carry it. It isn't mine. Don't make me sleep again.
    Dr. Simon Tam: I won't. I won't.
    River Tam: Put a bullet to me. Bullet in the brain pan. Squish.
    Dr. Simon Tam: Don't say that! Not ever. We'll get through this.
    River Tam: Things are going to get much, much worse.


    There's an INTJ brother doctor alive who isn't interested in where the memory came from? He'd track down such things looking for probable origins... and that'd be Ni and Te working together. As opposed say to extraverted feeling.
    There are INTJ brother-doctors alive who have had training in 'bedside manner' and are more concerned with solving immediate emotional tension than long-term puzzles because they can't think clearly under those conditions, yes.

    Quote Originally Posted by Kalach View Post
    And there's INTJ doctor-brothers out there who don't follow up nutty sisters' prophecy statements?
    If he determines her to be nutty rather than prophetic, absolutely.

    Quote Originally Posted by Kalach View Post
    And so on. But no, Simon cleaves to his sister almost as much as Mal follows military and seafaring traditions of captaincy.
    Trauma with brain damage tends to do that to people.
    Quote Originally Posted by Kalach View Post
    You have annoyed me, plebs. Your efforts to dimish what an INTJ is is rivalled only by my determination to view you as stupid persons. Feel my warm embrace and whiny voice of sincere selfless concern for your wellbeing.
    lol. the feeling is mutual.
    The beauty of a living thing is not the atoms that go into it, but the way those atoms are put together. ~ rCoxI ~ INfj ~ 5w6 so/sp

  3. #63
    Yeah, I can fly. Aleksei's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kalach View Post
    Just out of interest then, what do you think ordering people around, overtly invoking the concept of "crew" as if it were meaningful, and claiming "this is my ship" all add up to? And all the cowboy traditions of speaking yer mind and saying what you mean and helping the wimmin folk and being the ornery fallguy for every honourable cause as long as it's his kinda stupid?
    Fe. Sputtering, tertiary Fe -- particularly evidenced by his strong hero tendencies. Mal actually does not seem to care much for traditions, as seen in Shindig where he doesn't appear to even remotely understand the concept of a duel.

    None of which he learned in the military. None of which he almost totally and completely guides his life by, right down to the military uniform he continues to wear. No, he's a free spirit, wafting wherever the North wind blows him. He has more than two facial expressions, and I guess if there ever was a season two we'd have heard a third tone of voice.
    He continues to wear it because, yes, he does care about his military days. He fought in a rebellion, remember. His side lost the rebellion. A naturally free-spirited figure, he does indeed seem rather pissed off that the totalitarian government won the war.

    Tip for all you functionalists out there: if you'd like to privileged extroverted intuition, you can say introverted intuition is like extroverted intuition just really, really slow...

    meaning there's no way an INTJ Simon would take in his sister's utterances and by default spend some time asking himself what did they really mean, what was the real underlying whole that they masked, no, he'd just take them at face value. He'd totally occupy his introverted intuition with rehashing familiar medical techniques. Because that's what ISFJ INTJs do. Right?
    He didn't. He occupied it with coming up with elaborate, intricate plans on how to fix the girl. Because that is exactly what Ni-doms do.

    That extroverted thinking would not focus on presented objects, like say, nutcase sister utterances, things that indicated state of mind, and relative effect of drugs and trauma on condition of mind, and the introverted intuition would not look for the true nature of those things.
    No, it actually would not focus on uniting patterns. That is Ne. Rather, it would focus on coming up with an elaborate plan using forethought to assist his sister, which is precisely what Simon did in planning her rescue and then planning a way to figure out what was wrong in Ariel.

    No, an Ni/Te combination would be all about the comforting and the loving and the containing of expressions. Because that's what we do. Because we love you. And we want to care for you. Because you're our sister. And we loves you. All of you. Even if you don't know it, or recognise us for our sacrifice. We are INTJ, and we support YOU!
    Who the fuck said anything about "all of you"?! He only cares about one bloody person. He's willing to let a man die as he walks by, purely to save that one person. This is Fi, protecting his sister being a personal value of his, rather than Fe, gut sympathy. And of course he'd protect her, ESPECIALLY if she doesn't know it. This means she's in even more dire need.

    Feel my warm embrace and whiny voice of sincere selfless concern for your wellbeing.
    He cares for the well-being of his sister. His fucking sister. Not the random hobo on the street corner, just one bloody person. One bloody FAMILY MEMBER. Do you not care about your own family?
    [SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]

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  4. #64
    Filthy Apes! Kalach's Avatar
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    What am I supposed to do with all these split hairs, make a wig?

    Simon doesn't do global. He does particular and he does directive caring. He wears his feelings for his sister not just on his sleeve, but pushed out in front of him so that everyone else will pay attention to them and how they structure what must happen. Yeah, that's an INTJ. We advertise. (How many times does he have to say "She didn't mean any harm" before people will follow his rule, huh?)

    And oh yeah:

    Simon (to Jayne): My god. You're like a trained ape. Without the training.

    Scandalous! Dainty INTJs pay attention to the person and their comportment. Go team!
    Bellison uncorked a flood of horrible profanity, which, translated, meant, "This is extremely unusual."

    Boy meets Grr

  5. #65
    Energizer Bunny Resonance's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kalach View Post
    What am I supposed to do with all these split hairs, make a wig?

    Simon doesn't do global. He does particular and he does directive caring. He wears his feelings for his sister not just on his sleeve, but pushed out in front of him so that everyone else will pay attention to them and how they structure what must happen. Yeah, that's an INTJ. We advertise.

    And oh yeah:

    Simon (to Jayne): My god. You're like a trained ape. Without the training.

    Scandalous! Dainty INTJs pay attention to the person and their comportment. Go team!
    huh, I guess you're right. I've never seen an INTJ talk down to someone they considered unintelligent.
    The beauty of a living thing is not the atoms that go into it, but the way those atoms are put together. ~ rCoxI ~ INfj ~ 5w6 so/sp

  6. #66
    Filthy Apes! Kalach's Avatar
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    Still waiting on a description of Simon's mastermind nature. Ariel's the only example? Or was he doing that kind of thinking all the time?

    I'm naturally not in awe of there being a "plan" indicating that there was an INTJ because one-off plans aren't all that strategic. Grander planning, over-views, total pictures and what to do with everything next--that's mastermind stuff. Anyone can "plan".
    Bellison uncorked a flood of horrible profanity, which, translated, meant, "This is extremely unusual."

    Boy meets Grr

  7. #67
    Energizer Bunny Resonance's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kalach View Post
    Still waiting on a description of Simon's mastermind nature. Ariel's the only example? Or was he doing that kind of thinking all the time?

    I'm naturally not in awe of there being a "plan" indicating that there was an INTJ because one-off plans aren't all that strategic. Grander planning, over-views, total pictures and what to do with everything next--that's mastermind stuff. Anyone can "plan".
    Don't you think getting to the point where he can actually convince them that what he's going to do is a good idea...takes some masterminding?
    The beauty of a living thing is not the atoms that go into it, but the way those atoms are put together. ~ rCoxI ~ INfj ~ 5w6 so/sp

  8. #68
    Yeah, I can fly. Aleksei's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kalach View Post
    What am I supposed to do with all these split hairs, make a wig?
    17th century chic would look nice on you.

    Simon doesn't do global. He does particular and he does directive caring. He wears his feelings for his sister not just on his sleeve, but pushed out in front of him so that everyone else will pay attention to them and how they structure what must happen. Yeah, that's an INTJ. We advertise. (How many times does he have to say "She didn't mean any harm" before people will follow his rule, huh?)
    Yes, he talks to other people on the ship, yelling at them when they get suspicious of his sister. This refutes INTJ, how exactly?

    Oh, and you said it yourself -- he does particular rather than global. Fi rather than Fe. Thanks for confirming for the class than Simon isn't an SFJ.

    Quote Originally Posted by Kalach View Post
    Still waiting on a description of Simon's mastermind nature. Ariel's the only example? Or was he doing that kind of thinking all the time?
    He showed it in the film as well.

    I'm naturally not in awe of there being a "plan" indicating that there was an INTJ because one-off plans aren't all that strategic. Grander planning, over-views, total pictures and what to do with everything next--that's mastermind stuff. Anyone can "plan".
    It was a very thorough, intricately thought out plan. His plan to get his sister back from the Academy was even more elaborate.
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  9. #69
    Filthy Apes! Kalach's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Blairvoyant View Post
    Don't you think getting to the point where he can actually convince them that what he's going to do is a good idea...takes some masterminding?
    Masterminding? You mean, where he told them that an opportunity existed and waited for them to agree? Yeah, that's masterful. And then placed himself and his sister in a hostile environment under the care of the least reliable member of the crew. He made every member of the crew potential rich and then separated himself and his sister from them. He provided almost nothing in terms of his own safe exit plan. Masterful forward thinking.

    So maybe he was having a bad day. Not so masterful that day. Even INTJs have bad days. Especially when their sister has been wearing on their patience.

    And he did it all for a scan. A one-off scan. That he would be able to look at and do nothing about because he hadn't set up any long term arrangement with Mal. Masterful.



    He spends his time reacting, not even attempting to take change and tell people what should happen next. He must respect Mal a lot.





    But whatever... it's the global thinking that doesn't show up. That's the key. He doesn't show signs of an inner world of possibility engineering. And he does show signs of making feeling between people a subdued but compelling service issue.




    Intricately though out plans... now that's not an INTJ. Intricacies aren't what global strategy is about. Intricacies are tiresome and prevent one from going global in implication.








    And since I'm basically defending my own image as a personality type, you can all go on your merry way and have Simon be "INTJ" if you like. I don't see myself in him. Boo.
    Bellison uncorked a flood of horrible profanity, which, translated, meant, "This is extremely unusual."

    Boy meets Grr

  10. #70
    Yeah, I can fly. Aleksei's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kalach View Post
    And he did it all for a scan. A one-off scan. That he would be able to look at and do nothing about because he hadn't set up any long term arrangement with Mal. Masterful.
    That scan allowed him to determine the ins and outs of his sister's condition, not only what was wrong with her, but what the Academy did to her in particular.

    Quote Originally Posted by Kalach View Post
    He spends his time reacting, not even attempting to take change and tell people what should happen next. He must respect Mal a lot.
    Reacting? He waits on the ship, sure - he repeatedly comments with woe at his situation, loathing his life on that ship. He had no other option, being a fugitive. When he reaches junctions where he can act, however, he does so.

    Quote Originally Posted by Kalach View Post
    But whatever... it's the global thinking that doesn't show up. That's the key. He doesn't show signs of an inner world of possibility engineering. And he does show signs of making feeling between people a subdued but compelling service issue.
    1) English, fornicator-of-thy-mother. Dost thou speaketh it?
    2) He shows keen forethought, analyzing actions as a game of chess, a distinct manifestation of Ni. He also shows none of this "making feeling between people a compelling service issue." The only person on the planet he seems to remotely give a shit about is his sister. Bear in mind that he was willing to walk on by and let a man die, only helping him live to make his sister stop screaming. This is Fi, concern for personal values, rather than Fe, this care for feeling between people.

    Quote Originally Posted by Kalach View Post
    Intricately though out plans... now that's not an INTJ. Intricacies aren't what global strategy is about. Intricacies are tiresome and prevent one from going global in implication.
    1) Again, this is America. Speak English.
    2) It is indeed a manifestation of Ni-Te, forethought and a vision of the future combined with organization and focus for efficiency. Perhaps you dislike planning. Perhaps you're a particularly lazy INTJ. They certainly exist. This does not change the fact that treating life as a game of chess is Ni-Te to the core.

    Quote Originally Posted by Kalach View Post
    And since I'm basically defending my own image as a personality type, you can all go on your merry way and have Simon be "INTJ" if you like. I don't see myself in him. Boo.
    Well, that much was obvious. You're nothing like Simon (you indicated sociopathic tendencies earlier in dismissing caring for one's family), so you assume he cannot be of the same type as you, a logical fallacy. There are quite a few healthy INTJs (INTJs with strong tertiaries especially) who would actually identify with Simon.
    [SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]

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