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  1. #11
    Senior Member Harold Saxon's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by gromit View Post
    Does she actively enjoy it, or has she been trained to appear that way as part of her profession?
    That could be the case. However, note that she was offered many chances to leave her profession for a more privileged life. She refused all of these offers, indicating that she at least enjoys her profession. If she doesn't enjoy social contact, why would she consistently choose (to her own detriment, might I add) to continue on in a profession that is based entirely around it?

  2. #12
    Senior Member cafe's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Harold Saxon View Post
    That could be the case. However, note that she was offered many chances to leave her profession for a more privileged life. She refused all of these offers, indicating that she at least enjoys her profession. If she doesn't enjoy social contact, why would she consistently choose (to her own detriment, might I add) to continue on in a profession that is based entirely around it?
    I think the Companion's guild is something akin to a religious order, for one thing. It isn't just a career, it's a calling. She is in good standing with the guild, but she does not participate closely with it's workings, etc.

    Also, the chances to leave her profession involve basically moving from being an independent contractor to an employee. She likes her independence.
    “There are two novels that can change a bookish fourteen-year old’s life: The Lord of the Rings and Atlas Shrugged. One is a childish fantasy that often engenders a lifelong obsession with its unbelievable heroes, leading to an emotionally stunted, socially crippled adulthood, unable to deal with the real world. The other, of course, involves orcs.”
    ~ John Rogers

  3. #13
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    Quote Originally Posted by Harold Saxon View Post
    I strongly disagree here. Inara is far from the only N on the Serenity. One can tell that Simon, River, and Shepherd Book are N at clear first glance. Wash is clearly far more N than S as well, though one would have to catch onto his elaborate money-making plans uttered to Zoe and pay attention to how he pilots the ship (in a very experimental manner). Mal is also most likely N given his strong reliance on creativity, as well as his proven forethought and planning ability in many episodes such as the pilot episode, The Train Job, and Trash.

    I do agree that they are mostly P, however - the exceptions to this being only Simon (blatant INTJ), Book (he's hiding something, but he plays the part of an INFJ), Inara (ENFJ in my opinion, though most would say INFJ), and Zoe (ISTJ).

    But let's not derail this thread. I actually created a Firefly thread myself in the Pop Culture and Type subforum, so we could continue this discussion there.
    My main disagreement is that you are equating those traits with iNtuition. I don't equate being more skilled, intelligent or creative with being more N. Specific types of skills, creativity and intelligence you can correlate to type, and in the case of Firefly I think the crew are showing mostly SP skills. Quick, improvising and mechanical intelligence/creativity. Showing it isn't enough to determine type, it's the fact that they heavily rely on it and enjoy doing so that really suggests SP undercurrents.

    I can see Simon being INxJ, though it's iffy on the N, his background being very traditional and doctor being an xSTJ staple job. Inara ENFx, most likely J, so we're agreed there. Book's character is barely elaborated on by the end of the film. River, when not deranged, acts like the main crew, but still barely elaborated on. When deranged, if I had to, an ISFP kid personality.

    And by "end of the film", I mean the great tragedy that was Firefly's cancellation.

  4. #14
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    Mal- ISTP
    Inara- ENFJ or ENFP
    Zoe- ISTJ
    Wash- ESFP
    Jayne- ESTP
    Simon- INTJ
    Kaylee- ISFP
    River- IxTP
    Book- ESFJ

  5. #15
    Nerd King Usurper Edgar's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Harold Saxon View Post
    I've seen threads for typing the crew of the Serenity on other MBTI forums, but none on here. So, without further ado, here are my guesses:

    Captain Malcolm Reynolds - ENTP
    Zoe Alleyne Washbourne - ISTJ
    Hoban Washbourne - ENFP
    Inara Serra - ENFJ
    Jayne Cobb - ISTP
    Kaywinnit Lee Fry - ExFP (probably ESFP)
    Dr. Simon Tam - INTJ
    River Tam - a mentally disturbed INTP
    Shepherd Derrial Book - he's quite clearly hiding something, but the image he projects is one of an INFJ
    Mal is an ISTJ. He was always "do the right thing, even at your own expense" kind of guy. The reason he seemed a bit goofy is because TV executives said the series were too dark, and demanded Joss Whedon make changes. So he made Mal crack jokes, and do goofball things from time to time. But the essense of the character remained the same - he saw himself as the father figure of the crew, and took a lot a lot of hits to his wallet and his body for the sake of honor.

    I thought Zoe was an ESTJ, but its possible she was an Introvert.

    Wash was an ISFP. Good technician, and an unimposing friend.

    Inara was an introvert, most likely an INFP. She was quite protective of her solitude, and even though she put a great deal of emphasis on relationships, she didn't seem quite categorical about enforcement unless cornered (unlike Book). I suppose it is possible she was a "rounded J" though.

    Jayne was an ISTP.

    Kay was shifting between ESFP and ENFP depending on an episode.

    Dr Simon was ISFJ. He had that SFJ mentality of "my child can do no wrong". And an INTJ wouldn't let Jayne get away with the shit he did with a mere "I know what you did, but I am your doctor and I won't hurt you" (a very ISFJ style of enforcement btw - pointing out the offender's wickedness, guiltripping, and subtle appeal to honor) Simon was quite happy with just being "people's caretaker" - not exactly an INTJs forte.

    River was nuts, so its hard to type her.

    And yeah, Book was INFJ
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  6. #16
    Yeah, I can fly. Aleksei's Avatar
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    Mal is creative as fuck, and highly adaptable, eliminating both S and J. He's definitely not a "do the right thing at all costs" kind of guy, he just has more of a conscience than he would like to admit (tertiary Fe), and is highly loyal to his crew. A boyscout would have dumped the cargo and let in that poor man at the start of the movie, rather than just shooting him in the noggin. And... your justification for I is that he was written as an I but shot as an E? What? He's no introvert. he doesn't do goofy things and crack jokes every once in a while, he does it all the damn time. I never once saw him seek time alone.

    Zoe doesn't like talking. Introvert.

    Wash is extremely clever and creative as well. His flying style relies wholly on improvisation, and he's actually come up with some smart and successful plans and ideas. He came up with the rescue plan to save mal from Mishka if you'll remember. He's also quite sociable; he does most of the talking between him and Zoe for example.

    Kaylee (not Kay) is an ESFP who acts like an ENFP. She is relentlessly sweet (ENFP behavior), but she's extremely detail-oriented, an excellent mechanic, not particularly collaborative to the planning process of any heists (unlike Wash), and she adores sex.

    Simon... Simon was definitely not an SFJ, and typing him as such is indicative of catching the movie halfway through and never having watched Ariel. I will grant you that he behaves like an ISFJ most of the time, but in Ariel he outed himself as bloody Michael Corleone. The plan was Ni on crack, and its execution (by him particularly) screamed Te. He was gonna leave a man to die because they had to escape, and it was only at River's insistence that he stopped to help.

    River is quite typable. She's very analytical (Bible-fixing anybody?) making her T, rather reserved, and extremely impulsive. The only change I would see possible to her type is INFP rather than INTP -- given that brain damage rendered her incapable of suppressing her emotions, and she lived in a fantasy world (In Objects in Space she got ahold of a gun, and thought it was a tree branch).

    Book, I suspect, is an INTJ masquerading as an INFJ.
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  7. #17
    Nerd King Usurper Edgar's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Aleksei View Post
    Mal is creative as fuck, and highly adaptable, eliminating both S and J. He's definitely not a "do the right thing at all costs" kind of guy, he just has more of a conscience than he would like to admit (tertiary Fe), and is highly loyal to his crew. A boyscout would have dumped the cargo and let in that poor man at the start of the movie, rather than just shooting him in the noggin. And... your justification for I is that he was written as an I but shot as an E? What? He's no introvert. he doesn't do goofy things and crack jokes every once in a while, he does it all the damn time. I never once saw him seek time alone.

    Zoe doesn't like talking. Introvert.

    Wash is extremely clever and creative as well. His flying style relies wholly on improvisation, and he's actually come up with some smart and successful plans and ideas. He came up with the rescue plan to save mal from Mishka if you'll remember. He's also quite sociable; he does most of the talking between him and Zoe for example.
    You have to expound more on your "they are creative therefore they are not S" argument.

    Kaylee (not Kay) is an ESFP who acts like an ENFP. She is relentlessly sweet (ENFP behavior), but she's extremely detail-oriented, an excellent mechanic, not particularly collaborative to the planning process of any heists (unlike Wash), and she adores sex.
    What is the difference between being someone and acting like someone? You can't really read her mind, so you can only define her type via her actions.

    Simon... Simon was definitely not an SFJ, and typing him as such is indicative of catching the movie halfway through and never having watched Ariel. I will grant you that he behaves like an ISFJ most of the time, but in Ariel he outed himself as bloody Michael Corleone. The plan was Ni on crack, and its execution (by him particularly) screamed Te. He was gonna leave a man to die because they had to escape, and it was only at River's insistence that he stopped to help.
    Again, you are saying he behaves like an SFJ most of the time, except for the one time when he behaved like an INTJ, which makes him an INTJ?

    That doesn't make sense to me.

    River is quite typable. She's very analytical (Bible-fixing anybody?) making her T, rather reserved, and extremely impulsive. The only change I would see possible to her type is INFP rather than INTP -- given that brain damage rendered her incapable of suppressing her emotions, and she lived in a fantasy world (In Objects in Space she got ahold of a gun, and thought it was a tree branch).

    Book, I suspect, is an INTJ masquerading as an INFJ.
    Book was a devout preacher who died saying "I don't care what you believe, just believe in something". Quite an act to keep for an INTJ (even when he is about to die).

    The majority of your arguments revolve around "person behaves throughout the series as a type X while they are really type Y." Seriously dude... that isn't convincing. Give me something more to work with here.
    Listen to me, baby, you got to understand, you're old enough to learn the makings of a man.

  8. #18
    Yeah, I can fly. Aleksei's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Edgar View Post
    You have to expound more on your "they are creative therefore they are not S" argument.
    It's easy. Intuition is abstract, conceptual thinking, otherwise known as an imagination. Planning a heist requires N thinking.

    What is the difference between being someone and acting like someone? You can't really read her mind, so you can only define her type via her actions.
    By functioning as one type, but exhibiting a pattern of behavior most commonly associated with another type. Type isn't a measure of behavior but rather cognitive processing, so one can work as one type (that being the type one is), but behave like another. I have an INTJ friend who exhibits the quirky, spontaneous humor of an ENTP for example.

    Again, you are saying he behaves like an SFJ most of the time, except for the one time when he behaved like an INTJ, which makes him an INTJ?

    That doesn't make sense to me.
    No. I'm saying he is an INTJ because ISFJs are not ruthless, meticulous strategists. And that isn't the only time -- The way he rescued River showed plenty of Ni Te, hence my reference to having caught the movie halfway. he also showed himself rather INTJ in Jaynestown, though not to the extent he did in Ariel. He is relentlessly polite and nice (and yes unwilling to kill people, though he does it if he has to -- again, not F), thereby exhibiting ISFJ behavior, but he is a definite INTJ.

    Book was a devout preacher who died saying "I don't care what you believe, just believe in something". Quite an act to keep for an INTJ (even when he is about to die).
    It's possible he was INFJ altogether, yes. It's also possible that he grew into the role over time, but I still suspect INTJ. The following two exchanges spring to mind:

    Book: [to Mal] If you take sexual advantage of her, you're going to burn in a very special level of hell. A level they reserve for child molesters and people who talk at the theater.

    Zoe: Preacher, don't the Bible have some pretty specific things to say about killin'?
    Book: Quite specific. It is, however, somewhat fuzzier on the subject of kneecaps.

    On Inara being INFP: She shows herself to be a J on numerous occasions, particularly in Objects in Space, with her meticulously planned-out and structured list of accommodations. She's also rather decisive, one to take action herself rather than wait for events to come to her
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  9. #19
    Yeah, I can fly. Aleksei's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Benny View Post
    Mal- ISTP
    Inara- ENFJ or ENFP
    Zoe- ISTJ
    Wash- ESFP
    Jayne- ESTP
    Simon- INTJ
    Kaylee- ISFP
    River- IxTP
    Book- ESFJ
    Ok, Edgar's post was bad, but this is just batshit retarded. Mal is not an E or an S, Jayne is not an E, Kaylee is not an I, and River is not a possible S. And all of this is painfully obvious.

    I already explained Mal: The guy's cracking jokes all the time and never asks for time alone to recharge. And an S would just not be as creative and clever as he is.

    Jayne is clearly, clearly an ISTP, and how you got E is completely beyond me. The guy flat-out loathes talking to people, and acts dismissively towards people that attempt it. Kaylee is, likewise, not at all fond of alone time. She was having the time of her life in Shindig, if you'll remember.

    River is a clear INTP. Trying to fix the Bible is evidence of Ti Ne on crack.

    Book is also quite definitely an N, and seems I rather than E. He keeps to himself most of the time, and he's very creative (the fucker figured out a way around the First Commandment in War Stories).
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  10. #20
    Nerd King Usurper Edgar's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Aleksei View Post
    It's easy. Intuition is abstract, conceptual thinking, otherwise known as an imagination. Planning a heist requires N thinking.
    You telling me an S cannot pull it off? Common, that's ignorant. SP is the "tactician" personality (look it up), and an SJ with a military background could easily be capable of something like that as well.

    By functioning as one type, but exhibiting a pattern of behavior most commonly associated with another type. Type isn't a measure of behavior but rather cognitive processing, so one can work as one type (that being the type one is), but behave like another. I have an INTJ friend who exhibits the quirky, spontaneous humor of an ENTP for example.

    No. I'm saying he is an INTJ because ISFJs are not ruthless, meticulous strategists. And that isn't the only time -- The way he rescued River showed plenty of Ni Te, hence my reference to having caught the movie halfway. he also showed himself rather INTJ in Jaynestown, though not to the extent he did in Ariel. He is relentlessly polite and nice (and yes unwilling to kill people, though he does it if he has to -- again, not F), thereby exhibiting ISFJ behavior, but he is a definite INTJ.
    Yeah I don't know about that. Joking isn't a type as far as Myers Briggs is concerned. Neither is being polite. Hannibal Lecter was an INTJ and he was very polite.


    It's possible he was INFJ altogether, yes. It's also possible that he grew into the role over time, but I still suspect INTJ. The following two exchanges spring to mind:

    Book: [to Mal] If you take sexual advantage of her, you're going to burn in a very special level of hell. A level they reserve for child molesters and people who talk at the theater.
    How is that an INTJ quote? He was reminding Mal that evil deeds lead to damnation. If that's not an NFJ thing to say, then I don't know what is.

    Zoe: Preacher, don't the Bible have some pretty specific things to say about killin'?
    Book: Quite specific. It is, however, somewhat fuzzier on the subject of kneecaps.
    Well the whole character of Shepard Book is that he held a secret - and it is implied in the series that the secret is that he was a high ranking officer in the Alliance, maybe even a former "Operative". So combat wasn't an alien concept to him.

    On Inara being INFP: She shows herself to be a J on numerous occasions, particularly in Objects in Space, with her meticulously planned-out and structured list of accommodations. She's also rather decisive, one to take action herself rather than wait for events to come to her
    Particularity may be an indication of J-ness, but it is not by all means a conclusive one. She was a professional, and professionals do things in a professional (i.e. particular) way.

    Also from what I recall, she seemed to stay out of the affairs of the crew, unless it was clear that they couldn't handle it without her help.
    Listen to me, baby, you got to understand, you're old enough to learn the makings of a man.

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