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  1. #121
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    Every time I read your post's ya crack me up

  2. #122
    Senior Thread Terminator Aerithria's Avatar
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    Heh, I'm definitely seeing the argument for ISFJ.

    Simon (from Trash): You're in a dangerous line of work, Jayne. Odds are you'll be under my knife again, often. So I want you to understand one thing very clearly: No matter what you do or say or plot, no matter how you come down on us, I will never, ever harm you. You're on this table, you're safe... 'cause I'm your medic. And however little we may like or trust each other, we're on the same crew. Got the same troubles, same enemies, and more than enough of both. Now, we could circle each other and growl, sleep with one eye open, but that thought wearies me. I don't care what you've done, I don't know what you're planning on doing, but I'm trusting you. I think you should do the same. 'Cause I don't see this working any other way.

    He's going to let bygones be bygones because of their social position on the crew? That's pretty much as Fe as you get.
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  3. #123
    Energizer Bunny Resonance's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Aerithria View Post
    Heh, I'm definitely seeing the argument for ISFJ.

    Simon (from Trash): You're in a dangerous line of work, Jayne. Odds are you'll be under my knife again, often. So I want you to understand one thing very clearly: No matter what you do or say or plot, no matter how you come down on us, I will never, ever harm you. You're on this table, you're safe... 'cause I'm your medic. And however little we may like or trust each other, we're on the same crew. Got the same troubles, same enemies, and more than enough of both. Now, we could circle each other and growl, sleep with one eye open, but that thought wearies me. I don't care what you've done, I don't know what you're planning on doing, but I'm trusting you. I think you should do the same. 'Cause I don't see this working any other way.

    He's going to let bygones be bygones because of their social position on the crew? That's pretty much as Fe as you get.
    Looks to me more like lecturing him on "what the solution is going to be." Or one could make an argument for Fi on account of the personal values.

    If forgiving people for practical reasons is F then I'm as F as Snow White.
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  4. #124
    Happy Dancer uumlau's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Blairvoyant View Post
    Looks to me more like lecturing him on "what the solution is going to be." Or one could make an argument for Fi on account of the personal values.

    If forgiving people for practical reasons is F then I'm as F as Snow White.
    Yeah, key words: "I don't see this working any other way." This is a Te speech. The Te "style" often has a "take it or leave it" approach, because it is trying to deal with how to get things done, without much regard to how people feel about it. There is also, as you say, a statement of personal Fi boundaries: I will not harm others in my role as medic.

    Fe would be more about the veiled threat: if you do wrong me, you'll be under my knife sooner or later, and I'll get even. In fact, I believe that is exactly how Jayne and other Fe/Ti users would read it - as a veiled threat. I don't read it as a veiled threat so much as Te-style exhaustion with having to be wary about another's unpredictable, malicious behavior. This is why Te comes out "harsh" as often as not: the enumeration of potential difficulties that might be encountered due to a lack of cooperation can often be heard as potential threats/punishments from an Fe perspective, even though no threat or punishment is implied. Te thinks of it as "if you touch the hot stove, you will burn yourself," basic cause and effect, not as "the stove will punish you for your transgression."

  5. #125
    Energizer Bunny Resonance's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by uumlau View Post
    Yeah, key words: "I don't see this working any other way." This is a Te speech. The Te "style" often has a "take it or leave it" approach, because it is trying to deal with how to get things done, without much regard to how people feel about it. There is also, as you say, a statement of personal Fi boundaries: I will not harm others in my role as medic.

    Fe would be more about the veiled threat: if you do wrong me, you'll be under my knife sooner or later, and I'll get even. In fact, I believe that is exactly how Jayne and other Fe/Ti users would read it - as a veiled threat. I don't read it as a veiled threat so much as Te-style exhaustion with having to be wary about another's unpredictable, malicious behavior. This is why Te comes out "harsh" as often as not: the enumeration of potential difficulties that might be encountered due to a lack of cooperation can often be heard as potential threats/punishments from an Fe perspective, even though no threat or punishment is implied. Te thinks of it as "if you touch the hot stove, you will burn yourself," basic cause and effect, not as "the stove will punish you for your transgression."
    Yups.

    He comes across as a lot more "T" in Out of Gas. Not at all excited by the birthday cake but tries pretty hard (and awkwardly) to express appreciation. Tries to tell Inara what suffocating is going to be like when they're hours away from it. (lol)

    After all this I'm starting to think Mal is pretty F.
    The beauty of a living thing is not the atoms that go into it, but the way those atoms are put together. ~ rCoxI ~ INfj ~ 5w6 so/sp

  6. #126
    Filthy Apes! Kalach's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Blairvoyant View Post
    Looks to me more like lecturing him on "what the solution is going to be."
    Have you guys never heard an ENFJ speak?
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  7. #127
    Happy Dancer uumlau's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kalach View Post
    Have you guys never heard an ENFJ speak?
    Yep, I've heard 'em, and ESFJs and ISFJ and INFJs, too. Older ones can be more "no-nonsense" as a learned skill, just the same as TJs can learn better manners. Simon is young. This is not a sophisticated NFJ or SFJ style of speech, it's an NTJ speech, as given to someone whom he knows is very disinclined to cooperate.

    It can be difficult, at times, to distinguish the Te from the Fe. The two often try to "sound like" the other, and the key to seeing whether one is "really" Te or Fe is how they do the opposite function "incorrectly".

    Simon is too young to "fake" the other well, so I have to go with TJ, probably NTJ given his meds-stealing plan.

    If he were ISFJ as you describe, I'd expect to hear him say something more like, "Hey, if you stop trying to mess with me and my sister, I promise that I'll treat you well when you're under my care as a medic. We both win, that way. That's fair, right?"

    His speech is too weary of the mess, it doesn't intend to persuade. It sets boundaries. It doesn't try to reach an agreement. It is perhaps, however, far more persuasive, thereby. Te is at its strongest (persuasively) when the facts back you up.

  8. #128
    Yeah, I can fly. Aleksei's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kalach View Post
    Holy Crap, Fe alone is hardly, hardly, absolutely hardly the most altruistic of functions. Lordy, if hurting people was never an Fe thing, there'd be no FJs in the military, and probably no TPs in prison.
    Si Fe can very easily be convinced that it's acting for the good of the nation. STPs in prison are Fe tertiary.

    Quote Originally Posted by Kalach View Post
    Fe is a rational, directive function.
    That's Te. Fe is, by very definition, not a rational function. It is an ethical function, a feeling function. It says so right there on the title, Extroverted feeling, not thinking.

    Quote Originally Posted by Aerithria View Post
    Heh, I'm definitely seeing the argument for ISFJ.

    Simon (from Trash): You're in a dangerous line of work, Jayne. Odds are you'll be under my knife again, often. So I want you to understand one thing very clearly: No matter what you do or say or plot, no matter how you come down on us, I will never, ever harm you. You're on this table, you're safe... 'cause I'm your medic. And however little we may like or trust each other, we're on the same crew. Got the same troubles, same enemies, and more than enough of both. Now, we could circle each other and growl, sleep with one eye open, but that thought wearies me. I don't care what you've done, I don't know what you're planning on doing, but I'm trusting you. I think you should do the same. 'Cause I don't see this working any other way.

    He's going to let bygones be bygones because of their social position on the crew? That's pretty much as Fe as you get.
    Subtext failure. Let bygones be bygones? If he was gonna do that he'd have just ignored Jayne altogether; he wouldn't have prefaced it with the whole "you're gonna be under my knife a lot" speech, and he certainly wouldn't have brought his sister along. No, he confronted Jayne so Jayne would know he couldn't be fooled, and then let little sis do the threatening for him.
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  9. #129
    Habitual Fi LineStepper JocktheMotie's Avatar
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    All judging functions are rational.



  10. #130
    Yeah, I can fly. Aleksei's Avatar
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    I don't find my own Fi to be very rational, frankly.
    [SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]

    Teacher (Idyllic), ESE-IEI (Si-ESFj), SLue|I|, Sanguine-Melancholy
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