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  1. #91
    Filthy Apes! Kalach's Avatar
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    What for? To rule out personality-based explanations as explanations of personality? Good plan. You're an ISFJ too.



    Attribution error has to bite pretty hard here, I guess. Like, "He planned a robbery, he's INTJ". What is that--situational or personality-based? Actually, identify a single statement ever that attributes a personality type to anyone that doesn't fall under the rubric of attribution error.

    Presumably you were suggesting some other, ah, deep insight, that would arise if one waved at attribution error?
    Bellison uncorked a flood of horrible profanity, which, translated, meant, "This is extremely unusual."

    Boy meets Grr

  2. #92
    Whisky Old & Women Young Speed Gavroche's Avatar
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    Mal: ENTJ
    Zoe: ISTJ
    Wash: ISFP
    Inara: ESFJ
    Jayne: ISTP
    Kaylee: ESFP
    Dr. Simon Tam: ESTP
    River Tam: INTP
    Derrial Book: ENFJ
    EsTP 6w7 Sx/Sp

    Chaotic Neutral

    E=60% S=55% T=70% P=80%

    "I don't believe in guilt, I only believe in living on impulses"

    "Stereotypes about personality and gender turn out to be fairly accurate: ... On the binary Myers-Briggs measure, the thinking-feeling breakdown is about 30/70 for women versus 60/40 for men." ~ Bryan Caplan

  3. #93
    Energizer Bunny Resonance's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kalach View Post
    What for? To rule out personality-based explanations as explanations of personality?
    To rule out situational behaviours as explanations of personality.

    Like, for example, caring for the emotions of your brain-damaged sister and only person that matters to you in the whole universe.

    Quote Originally Posted by Kalach View Post
    Good plan. You're an ISFJ too.
    sure, my underlying motivations to serve humanity as a whole at the expense of...

    wait, that doesn't make sense

    Quote Originally Posted by Kalach View Post
    Attribution error has to bite pretty hard here, I guess. Like, "He planned a robbery, he's INTJ". What is that--situational or personality-based? Actually, identify a single statement ever that attributes a personality type to anyone that doesn't fall under the rubric of attribution error.
    Yes, I'll admit that planning a robbery alone doesn't class him as INTJ.

    Hence why I provided other examples, based on a holistic type profile.

    Quote Originally Posted by Kalach View Post
    Presumably you were suggesting some other, ah, deep insight, that would arise if one waved at attribution error?
    nope just a shallow one

    I'm not great with deep stuff
    The beauty of a living thing is not the atoms that go into it, but the way those atoms are put together. ~ rCoxI ~ INfj ~ 5w6 so/sp

  4. #94
    Filthy Apes! Kalach's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Blairvoyant View Post
    To rule out situational behaviours as explanations of personality.

    Like, for example, caring for the emotions of your brain-damaged sister and only person that matters to you in the whole universe.
    Ah. He's an INTJ, but exceptional circumstances are making him act out of character, thus he's an INTJ.

    And not, say, an ISFJ under exceptional circumstances and being kinda uncharacteristic and, say, discovering how to rob a hospital.

    There's no follow-up. Simon the Mastermind only masterminds this one job and doesn't get involved with other jobs. Crucially, he doesn't get involved with directing Mal to bigger schemes where River gets more help. But, no, his masterminding only went as far as exactly what he already knew--hospitals and being a doctor (on the run).

    Maybe he would have branched out if there had been a season 2.

    So anyway, that leaves us with the way he acts every day and what it suggests about his character. And I say his directive character in immediate interactions is based on feeling, not on thinking.



    Besides which, it isn't the Simon Tam show. He is bound by the karmic law of supporting characters to never wholly eclipse the main focus. He's obliged to always end up subordinate to Mal's ISTJ world of being cowboys and being what yer always was. Even if he wanted to be INTJ he wouldn't be allowed.


    ISFJ


    Because he's a doctor in a cowboy show with a sister. Cain't hope fer better.

    Which makes Inara ESFJ. But River.... what's River now? If she could control technology with her mind, then she'd be INTP. Given Objects in Space she's either precognitive INFJ or Technology Ghost INTP. Or both. Or neither.


    (Inara gets away with that kind of interaction mode and is called FJ, but when Simon does it he's TJ? Because he has a sister?)
    Bellison uncorked a flood of horrible profanity, which, translated, meant, "This is extremely unusual."

    Boy meets Grr

  5. #95
    Energizer Bunny Resonance's Avatar
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    ok whatever I'm not going for a phd in mbti so I'll let you have final say
    The beauty of a living thing is not the atoms that go into it, but the way those atoms are put together. ~ rCoxI ~ INfj ~ 5w6 so/sp

  6. #96
    Filthy Apes! Kalach's Avatar
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    O, there's more. I just remembered Buffy.

    Joss Whedon has written INTJs before. And ISFJs. And ISTJs.


    So.... Giles and Simon... how do they compare? And Simon and Riley.



    It's not especially convincing, but it's something. And it's going to tell us something magical about types in fiction.
    Bellison uncorked a flood of horrible profanity, which, translated, meant, "This is extremely unusual."

    Boy meets Grr

  7. #97
    Energizer Bunny Resonance's Avatar
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    that they work about as well as they do in reality?
    The beauty of a living thing is not the atoms that go into it, but the way those atoms are put together. ~ rCoxI ~ INfj ~ 5w6 so/sp

  8. #98
    Yeah, I can fly. Aleksei's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Speed Gavroche View Post
    Mal: ENTJ
    Quite possible, but he does seem more Ti/Fe rather than Te/Fi. He lets things go almost instantly (Fe leaders are soft, Te leaders aren't), and he's got quite the heroic streak to him. The reason he looks Te is because Fillon can't play a non-Te character. I still say ENTP.

    Quote Originally Posted by Speed Gavroche View Post
    Inara: ESFJ
    S? Hell no. Inara is the second most obviously intuitive character aboard the ship, after River. She gives off a "mystical mentor" vibe very typical to NFJs, and shows a great deal of foresight.

    Quote Originally Posted by Speed Gavroche View Post
    Wash: ISFP
    Wash is highly sociable, and his piloting style seems highly experimental ("improvisational" wasn't the right word -- apologies to Whatever, Se can be improvisational). He just tries different approaches he thinks up to get out of tight spots, and like Mal he does show a certain amount of foresight (this could of course be tertiary Ni, but that's highly unlikely given his Te is far too strong to be inferior -- he's actually better at planning capers than Mal is). ENFP.

    Quote Originally Posted by Speed Gavroche View Post
    Dr. Simon Tam: ESTP
    Now this is lulzy. Simon, ESTP? Socially awkward, stuffy, businesslike Simon ESTP? Ni-on-crack Simon, who came up with an intricate plan to rob a fucking medical facility, ESTP? C'mon man, you can do better than that.

    Quote Originally Posted by Speed Gavroche View Post
    Derrial Book: ENFJ
    Book seems a bit too quiet for an ENFJ, and not preachy enough.

    The rest seem right though.
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  9. #99
    Yeah, I can fly. Aleksei's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kalach View Post
    That particular speech of his doesn't reek of emotional controls over empirical thinking? He was speechifying to obtain her consent and he appealled to what? Empirical thinking? Or faith in yer lovin' brother who cares for you? And who doesn't involve you in thinking about things because he cares for you most of all.

    Plainly, since as far as we know he didn't inquire of her as to why she had slashed Jayne, he thinks she's not amenable to reasoned discussion and won't produce accurate reflections of her own condition, so--because he's all pragmatic and feeling deeply for his actions with respect to her--he puts on a big show of deep, functional concern so that she will comply?

    Good to know this about INTJs, that emo-tripping we use to get people on board with our schemes.
    Irrelevant. Simon's Feeling function is very obviously not Fe, which puts ISFJ off the map. And it's not like INTJs are incapable of being affectionate (maybe you are, but projecting's a bad idea ). You should see my INTJ best friend's conversations with his girlfriend... he makes Simon up there look like a Cyberman by comparison.

    Sheer intricacy, my ass. How many times must this be pointed out--global isn't intricate--INTJs overlook details in order to reach the big picture.
    Ni does that. Te takes care of contingencies, which he was doing, which involves detail work.

    How is everyone trying to think INTJs are this kind of pansy? INTJs do hysteria over other people not following their orders about processes and truth, not social insults. (Yeah yeah, Simon does that too when his parents don't believe him about River, so he bypasses them and attempts a rescue on his own--how very utilitarian and pragmatic--but how does he function on a day-to-day level... NOT INTJ. And I'll be snooty and caring if you don't believe me because I'll still love you. It's the INTJ way.)
    Fi. Fi. Fi!!!!!! That he, unlike you, is not a goddamn sociopath and cares for his sister (and no one else but his sister) is not proof he's an F type, it's proof he's a human fucking being. INTJs can very much care deeply, passionately for those close to them.
    [SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]

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    Inventive > Artistic > Leisurely > Dramatic
    7w6 > 4w3 > 9w8, weakside sp/so

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  10. #100
    Senior Thread Terminator Aerithria's Avatar
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    The reason INTJ villains always fail is because their plans tend to ignore some detail that ends up screwing them over. A plan that's detailed to the point of flawlessness is indicative of strong Si, not Ni. Also, INTJs plan things for the way long run -- notice how Simon Tam's plans don't really go past the task at hand. I doubt an INTJ would leave it at "rescue sister" without knowing how they were supposed to go on afterward.

    Out of curiosity, is there any reason Simon couldn't be an ISTJ? Granted, it's been a while since I've watched the series, but I'm having trouble picturing Fe/Ti for him.
    [insert funny quote/saying/etc.]

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