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  1. #51
    not to be trusted miss fortune's Avatar
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    or grow algae

    but whining is the major ability shown so far

    and if it makes him feel any better at least I phrase smart things in a dumb way (i.e. "dude, you're getting it all wrong! If you'd added that space between the numbers there when you were typing them in...")
    “Oh, we're always alright. You remember that. We happen to other people.” -Terry Pratchett

  2. #52
    Freshman Member simulatedworld's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by musicheck View Post
    The interesting statistic is not the number but the proportion.

    If we go by this page, Meyers-Briggs Statistics
    there's way more female ENFP than any other female type. Proportionately, I'd imagine the female INTJ is quite possibly on top as well. Do you know where I can find this data? All I could find with a bit of googling is that 83% of national merit finalists are N and that there are disproportionately many I's as well.

    Also, about the INTJ is smart stereotype, every statistical measure I have seen suggests it is true (35% chance of being in the top 2% of IQ is pretty striking, for example). (Ugh, this post would seem a hell of a lot less self congratulatory back when I self-identified as INTP.)
    How about a little of that famous Ni here, guys?

    Let's think for a moment about what it is that IQ tests actually test. Your assertions are predicated on the erroneous assumption that IQ tests provide an accurate assessment of all forms of intelligence.

    In fact, they don't. They test iNtuitive-Thinking intelligence, which explains why NT types tend to do better on them.

    In fact, there are many kinds of intelligence. Se intelligence, for instance, simply doesn't tend to lead people toward applying for things like the National Merit Scholarship.

    Everyone in this thread citing such statistics is missing the point: that there is more than one form of intelligence, and that scoring higher on tests of NT-type intelligence doesn't prove anything about intelligence as a whole.

    If you guys want to show that you're smarter than everyone you need to do a little better than showing that you do well on tests of your own kind of intelligence. If we designed a test of emotional intelligence, FPs would crush you. It's arrogant and short-sighted to assume that your kind of intelligence is "THE intelligence."
    If you could be anything you want, I bet you'd be disappointed--am I right?

  3. #53
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    Quote Originally Posted by stillwater View Post
    I think my big question about this type of argument is why are INTx's always robbed of their "thing" so to speak, their mode of being? Everybody seems to want a piece of the intelligence pie to claim as their own, but they won't give up the piece of pie already on their plate. The idea really isnt farfetched that a preference for a pervasive manner of viewing and understanding the world framed through thought and analysis would lead to ability in those areas. I would hope all types are good at the mode in which the most commonly approach life. But what is farfetched is the idea that someone who had processed most of their life this way would suck at it. There seems to be something in the word intelligence that brings out the worst greed in people. People want to claim it for their own or tarnish it so its not worth as much. How often does the debate turn into how intelligence or intellect is defined and whether or not the tests based off of the definitions are biased towards certain groups? People know intelligence in real life when they encounter it. Just like they know a genuinely kind soul or someone with great humor, but there is a different premium put on the word intelligence that seems to damn any conversation that makes mention of it.

    Essentially, no one wants to say that theyre not intelligent. The problem is in the word. People will admit to being poor at relationships, chronically clumsy, easily emotionally distressed, easily distracted, bad at art and even not creativebut no one wants to be called stupid. If there was a way to express the mental processing that NTs do without invoking the connotations that tinge every discussion of it that would be great. But at present there isnt. There is an incompatibility of terminology that may be superficial or it may be pervasive in its reach, but until the language changes the debate and arguments will rage. But for the record, whatever NTs have should not be claimed or found meritless by someone else at a whim. It took a lot of time to develop that (for which many of the experiences were unpleasant). Likewise, the same can be said for the mental processes of the other types and groupings. It is somewhat insulting to say that it's a lie that someone is good at what they've practiced their whole life--it negates what they feel they can offer others.
    See!

    INTJs ARE more intelligent than everybody else!

  4. #54
    Ghost Monkey Soul Vizconde's Avatar
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    I think you all might be treating stillwater a little unfairly. Motivation is a powerful factor as far as intelligence or the perception of being intelligent, well read or wise. Similarly singing (although there are some people who should give up because of their voice or being tone deaf) is generally improved with motivation which leads practice which leads to perfect or near perfect (similar to tuning caring for and practicing an instrument).
    I redact everything I have written or will write on this forum prior to, subsequent with and or after the fact of its writing. For entertainment purposes only and not to be taken seriously nor literally.

    Quote Originally Posted by Edgar View Post
    Spamtar - a strange combination of boorish drunkeness and erudite discussions, or what I call "an Irish academic"

  5. #55
    Freshman Member simulatedworld's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Zarathustra View Post
    See!

    INTJs ARE more intelligent that everybody else!
    If you could be anything you want, I bet you'd be disappointed--am I right?

  6. #56
    not to be trusted miss fortune's Avatar
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    ^ my mom studies multiple intelligences and related learning strategies for her masters

    I remember reading quite a bit about the bias in IQ test in stats AND social psych- the test is definitley biased towards one way of thinking, which is why minorities and women usually tend to score lower, even though they aren't less intelligent than white males :rolli:
    “Oh, we're always alright. You remember that. We happen to other people.” -Terry Pratchett

  7. #57
    Freshman Member simulatedworld's Avatar
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    ^ I love how the INTJs keep showing up insisting that they're the smartest because xyz study shows that they do the best in [x competition of NT intelligence]...as if that's somehow relevant to the overall picture intelligence in all its different forms.
    If you could be anything you want, I bet you'd be disappointed--am I right?

  8. #58
    Senior Member Loxias's Avatar
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    So, what defines non-male/white intelligence. What are its outcomes according to that, what to expect from it?
    NiFiTeSe
    4w5 so/sp
    I 77% E 23%
    N 85% S 15%
    T 51% F 49%
    J 60% P 40%
    average of many test results combined

  9. #59
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    Quote Originally Posted by whatever View Post
    ^ my mom studies multiple intelligences and related learning strategies for her masters

    I remember reading quite a bit about the bias in IQ test in stats AND social psych- the test is definitley biased towards one way of thinking, which is why minorities and women usually tend to score lower, even though they aren't less intelligent than white males :rolli:
    The fact of the matter is that while there are different kinds of intelligences, certain kinds of intelligence help you "get ahead" in the world more than others.

    That's the type of intelligence that's generally measured in standardized tests (although emotional intelligence isn't, and that certainly helps you get ahead, especially when combined with the intelligence that is tested by standardized tests).

  10. #60
    not to be trusted miss fortune's Avatar
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    and you're definitley forgetting interpersonal intelligence, and I really don't see many poor professional athletes or movie stars running around :rolli:

    some weird INTJs keep wandering around flaunting their inferiority complexes by trying to find SOMETHING that they're better than anyone else at... the studies are probably written by INTJs as well
    “Oh, we're always alright. You remember that. We happen to other people.” -Terry Pratchett

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