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  1. #551
    Alexander the Terrible yenom's Avatar
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    INTJ123 was the most intelligent INTJ in this forum. I think everyone would agree with me in this.

    too bad he got kicked out for his awesomeness.
    The fear of poverty turns people into slaves of money.

    "In this Caesar there are many Mariuses"~Sulla

    Conquer your inner demons first before you conquer the world.

  2. #552
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    Quote Originally Posted by poki View Post
    Ok, do INTJs use rote learning or do they discover something complex and original? If Ni is like memory and overlaying patterns and systems do they really discover something new or is it extremely good application of rote learning leading to a false IQ score? I think INTPs can put INTJs to shame when it comes to intelligence in regards to creating something complex and new. This is where a shallow Ne really shines along with a dominant Ti to filter things out. I am not saying they are not intelligent or they are not smart, but if you say intelligence is about discovering something new then doesnt that go against the concept of dominant Ni actually being intelligent and you are supporting what you believe intelligence is?
    Honestly, no offense, but you are completely wrong on this.

    INTJs figure out new patterns, that no one else has seen before. That's the work of Ni.

    You're mistaking Ni with Si.

  3. #553
    reborn PeaceBaby's Avatar
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    As an IN-P (introverted intuitive perceiver) it is generally accepted that it is more probable to be gifted as compared to a normative population.

    It is by no means guaranteed. And gifted individuals are found in every personality type.

    But bear in mind folks, this does not correlate to IQ per se.

    In this study, the author synthesizes results of studies about personality types of gifted adolescents. Fourteen studies were coded with 19 independent samples. The total number of identified participants in original studies was 5,723. The most common personality types among gifted adolescents were “intuitive” and “perceiving.” They were higher on the Introversion, Intuition, Thinking, and Perceiving dimensions of the personality scales of the Myers-Briggs Type Indicator (MBTI) when compared to general high school students. Also, gifted adolescents differed within the group by gender and by ability. Based on the findings, the author discusses teaching practices for gifted students according to their personality preferences.
    Gifted Adolescents



    My dislike of such conversations is evident by my replies here. "Pretty is as pretty does" ...

    I suppose it may be similar to the way an xNFP likes to believe we have privied empathic insight into the inner workings of others. And indeed we may, but it is improper to either assume or boast about such things. Any "smart" INTJ would be wise to consider such a point here. You feel the soaring intellectual insights that your preferences lend you, but to unduly prop your ego upon them is to set one up for an inevitable fall back to earth.

    Such things are better kept closer to the heart.

    That's as much help as I can provide here; undoubtedly the "who's smarter" debate will push forward, to what end, who can say? Waste another day discussing it, instead of getting some work done in the real world.
    "Remember always that you not only have the right to be an individual, you have an obligation to be one."
    ― Eleanor Roosevelt


    "When people see some things as beautiful,
    other things become ugly.
    When people see some things as good,
    other things become bad."
    ― Lao Tzu, Tao Te Ching

  4. #554
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    Quote Originally Posted by PeaceBaby View Post
    That's as much help as I can provide here; undoubtedly the "who's smarter" debate will push forward, to what end, who can say? Waste another day discussing it, instead of getting some work done in the real world.
    Hey sister, I'm AT work.

    We INTJs are just that good at multi-tasking!

  5. #555
    Freshman Member simulatedworld's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by SolitaryWalker View Post
    Thank you, however, I believe Lex was deriding Zarathustra, not me. Nonetheless your suggestion that he should cut down on substanceless ridicule has merit in its own right.
    Oh...my mistake. But agreed nonetheless.
    If you could be anything you want, I bet you'd be disappointed--am I right?

  6. #556
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    Quote Originally Posted by Zarathustra View Post
    Honestly, no offense, but you are completely wrong on this.

    INTJs figure out new patterns, that no one else has seen before. That's the work of Ni.

    You're mistaking Ni with Si.
    To me memorizing in regards to Ni is like a memorization of the understanding. It is rote learning, then you can overlay these understandings or patterns across each other instantly just like Si can pull up detail instantly.

    I dont recognize functions by the output of them. I try to understand what exactly the function itself is.
    Im out, its been fun

  7. #557
    Freshman Member simulatedworld's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Zarathustra View Post
    Honestly, no offense, but you are completely wrong on this.

    INTJs figure out new patterns, that no one else has seen before. That's the work of Ni.

    You're mistaking Ni with Si.
    I agree Poki's post is definitely inaccurate about Ni lacking creativity, but just a minor caveat about yours--

    I've seen a lot of INTJs use rote memorization when it comes to methodology that's already been proven to work optimally or that they can't see any way to improve upon.


    Quote Originally Posted by poki View Post
    To me memorizing in regards to Ni is like a memorization of the understanding. It is rote learning, then you can overlay these understandings or patterns across each other instantly just like Si can pull up detail instantly.

    I dont recognize functions by the output of them. I try to understand what exactly the function itself is.
    One thing that Ne might have on Ni is its ability/desire to consider and test every single imaginable possibility just in case something interesting turns up. Ni will usually try to figure out which possibilities seem worth spending time on (read: those which accomplish the most useful goals) and just focus on those, which can cause it to miss ideas that are really out of left field because current information didn't indicate they were worth looking into.

    Sometimes Ne vs. Ni is described as "outside the box" vs. "about the box", which is not a bad way of looking at it.
    If you could be anything you want, I bet you'd be disappointed--am I right?

  8. #558
    Happy Dancer uumlau's Avatar
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    Them INTJs might be pretty smart, but not so smart as us ESFPs.

  9. #559
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    Quote Originally Posted by poki View Post
    Ok, do INTJs use rote learning or do they discover something complex and original? If Ni is like memory and overlaying patterns and systems do they really discover something new or is it extremely good application of rote learning leading to a false IQ score? I think INTPs can put INTJs to shame when it comes to intelligence in regards to creating something complex and new. This is where a shallow Ne really shines along with a dominant Ti to filter things out. I am not saying they are not intelligent or they are not smart, but if you say intelligence is about discovering something new then doesnt that go against the concept of dominant Ni actually being intelligent and you are supporting what you believe intelligence is?

    Who is to define new and complex anyway. If a person discovers the same theories as einstein is he not intelligent because its not new to the world, but he discovered it on his own? How much of your definition of intelligent thinking is applied to what you try to do or what you are good at? Success is not an indicator of intelligence, just apparent intelligence which leads back to my statement.
    Quote Originally Posted by Zarathustra View Post
    Honestly, no offense, but you are completely wrong on this.

    INTJs figure out new patterns, that no one else has seen before. That's the work of Ni.

    You're mistaking Ni with Si.
    Quote Originally Posted by poki View Post
    To me memorizing in regards to Ni is like a memorization of the understanding. It is rote learning, then you can overlay these understandings or patterns across each other instantly just like Si can pull up detail instantly.

    I dont recognize functions by the output of them. I try to understand what exactly the function itself is.
    Once again, no offense Poki, but, based off this string of comments, your understanding of Ni sounds piss poor...

  10. #560
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    Quote Originally Posted by simulatedworld View Post
    One thing that Ne might have on Ni is its ability/desire to consider and test every single imaginable possibility just in case something interesting turns up. Ni will usually try to figure out which possibilities seem worth spending time on (read: those which accomplish the most useful goals) and just focus on those, which can cause it to miss ideas that are really out of left field because current information didn't indicate they were worth looking into.
    Per your normal refrain, this sounds more like Ni working in conjunction with a J function. But yes, you are kinda right.

    At the same time, the drawback on this for Ne is that it goes off to left field too often, and generally in a chaotic, undisciplined way.

    Ni is much more focused in its perceptual shifting.

    Quote Originally Posted by simulatedworld View Post
    Sometimes Ne vs. Ni is described as "outside the box" vs. "about the box", which is not a bad way of looking at it.
    Not bad. But not perfect.

    I'd say Ne is running around like a loon outside the box.

    Ni is sitting there looking at the box, other boxes in the vicinity, and wondering whether there are any new ones to look through.

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