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  1. #211
    Freshman Member simulatedworld's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by SillySapienne View Post
    It honestly frightens me that you don't get what I'm talking about.

    :confused:

    Perhaps you'll ingest Z's definitions because he's an NT like you, :rolli:

    I'm discussing Selfishness versus Altruism.

    There is a spectrum; on the individual level, the monkey sphere level, as well as the species level.
    Um...I understand what you're talking about. I just don't understand its relevance to the topic at hand.

    You asked how anyone could ever perceive Fi as selfish. I tried to explain that sometimes it can appear this way from the Ti+Fe perspective.

    You said that you had plenty of Fe, but also didn't understand how Fi could ever be perceived as selfish. I said this seemed odd given that someone proficient in Fe should easily be able to see why Ti+Fe people might find Fi selfish, even if they're wrong in this assessment.

    You then veered off topic to inform me that selfishness and altruism exist. I don't see the relevance.
    If you could be anything you want, I bet you'd be disappointed--am I right?

  2. #212
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    Quote Originally Posted by simulatedworld View Post
    What is the relevance here? What point are you trying to make in relation to what we were talking about?
    Quote Originally Posted by SillySapienne View Post
    It honestly frightens me that you don't get what I'm talking about.

    :confused:

    Perhaps you'll ingest Z's definitions because he's an NT like you, :rolli:

    I'm discussing Selfishness versus Altruism.

    There is a spectrum; on the individual level, the monkey sphere level, as well as the species level.
    Quote Originally Posted by simulatedworld View Post
    Um...I understand what you're talking about. I just don't understand its relevance to the topic at hand.

    You asked how anyone could ever perceive Fi as selfish. I tried to explain that sometimes it can appear this way from the Ti+Fe perspective.

    You said that you had plenty of Fe, but also didn't understand how Fi could ever be perceived as selfish. I said this seemed odd given that someone proficient in Fe should easily be able to see why Ti+Fe people might find Fi selfish, even if they're wrong in this assessment.

    You then veered off topic to inform me that selfishness and altruism exist. I don't see the relevance.
    Did an Ne user really just Ne an Ne user??!


  3. #213
    `~~Philosoflying~~` SillySapienne's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Zarathustra View Post
    Perception of selfishness is relative. Not selfishness.
    AND THIS IS WHY I LOVE YOU!!!!

    Fuckin' A, how someone cannot see/understand this baffles me, at least some of us do.





    Quote Originally Posted by simulatedworld View Post
    The problem seems to be that all assessments of selfishness are subject to perceptual bias.
    All information that human beings receive is PERCEIVED.

    The question is how accurate are our perceptions, how accurately do they reflect truth/reality/what is.

    Quote Originally Posted by Zarathustra View Post
    Which reminds me, babe, are you coming over tonight?

    Still at work, but I'll be cumming over tomorrow.... hopefully.
    `
    'Cause you can't handle me...

    "A lie is a lie even if everyone believes it. The truth is the truth even if nobody believes it." - David Stevens

    "That that is, is. That that is not, is not. Is that it? It is."

    Veritatem dies aperit

    Ride si sapis

    Intelligentle sparkles

  4. #214
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    Quote Originally Posted by simulatedworld View Post
    I tried to explain that sometimes it can appear this way from the Ti+Fe perspective.
    C'mon, Sim.

    You did a little more than that very neutered statement.

    Sim = :steam:

  5. #215
    Senior Member Lex Talionis's Avatar
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    Hahaha. This thread is brilliant.

    I assume it was created as a response to the "ESFPs are stupid myth." This is what it's come to? You're comforting yourselves by attempting to "prove" that INTJ intelligence is a "myth" using your twisted logic and nitpicking of individual INTJs?

    Absolutely hilarious.

    The only "myth" here is your delusional belief in type equality.
    "Death is nothing, but to live defeated and inglorious is to die daily."
    —Bonaparte

  6. #216
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    Quote Originally Posted by SillySapienne View Post
    Still at work, but I'll be cumming over tomorrow.... hopefully.
    Mmmm...

    I like me the spelling of that...


  7. #217
    `~~Philosoflying~~` SillySapienne's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by kiddykat View Post
    I think it boils down to intentions, which are either to help or harm, regardless of Fi or Fe.

    Those who truly are selfish, know when they are, because selfishness takes on a form of conscious manipulation, degradation, to place others in a position of disadvantage so that we get our needs met first.

    There's a strong social component of me vs. we.


    For instance: when a baby feeds off of its mother's nipples, the act can be seen as an act of selfishness, when skewed from that p.o.v., but the baby's intent is not to harm. The act of feeding onto a mother and needing that care can also be an act of cooperation so that the child grows up to become a productive citizen, who helps out the clan for the greater good for specie's survival. How is that selfish? JMO.
    Reading this reminds me of how in certain circumstances infanticide can be not only justified, but altruistic.
    `
    'Cause you can't handle me...

    "A lie is a lie even if everyone believes it. The truth is the truth even if nobody believes it." - David Stevens

    "That that is, is. That that is not, is not. Is that it? It is."

    Veritatem dies aperit

    Ride si sapis

    Intelligentle sparkles

  8. #218
    Senior Member Lex Talionis's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Tater Typhoon View Post
    I've noticed a trend in television sitcoms for "intelligent" characters to be INTJs.
    Notably, Stewy Griffin, Gandalf the Grey, Hannibal Lectar and Severus Snape.

    Obviously this a stereotype unfounded in reality, but what is it about INTJs that makes Hollywood writers make them intelligent characters, or alternatively make intelligent characters into INTJs?
    How is it "unfounded in reality"? What is unrealistic about the type exhibiting the highest amount of intelligence being portrayed as intelligent on television? If it didn't have some basis in reality, it wouldn't have been taken seriously enough to characterize in such a fashion.

    Brilliant thread is brilliant.
    "Death is nothing, but to live defeated and inglorious is to die daily."
    —Bonaparte

  9. #219
    Freshman Member simulatedworld's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Lex Talionis View Post
    The only "myth" here is your delusional belief in type equality.
    I don't believe in type equality. I simply don't succumb to the myth that my type's positive qualities are inherently better than those of other types.

    Unfortunately you do. It's a defense mechanism to prop up your ego.


    Quote Originally Posted by SillySapienne View Post
    AND THIS IS WHY I LOVE YOU!!!!

    Fuckin' A, how someone cannot see/understand this baffles me, at least some of us do.






    All information that human beings receive is PERCEIVED.

    The question is how accurate are our perceptions, how accurately do they reflect truth/reality/what is.


    Still at work, but I'll be cumming over tomorrow.... hopefully.
    How do you know for sure, objectively and not just perceptually, when someone is being selfish? Fi tells you so? Oops, and now we've run into the inevitable perceptual bias problem again.


    "All things are subject to interpretation. Whichever interpretation prevails at a given time is a function of power and not truth."
    --Nietzsche
    If you could be anything you want, I bet you'd be disappointed--am I right?

  10. #220
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    Quote Originally Posted by simulatedworld View Post
    It seems to me that, since Fe values accommodating the feelings of others by altering its own, someone with "plenty of Fe" should be able to understand quite easily how Fi might be perceived as selfish (even if such a perception is ultimately erroneous or incomplete.)

    But she didn't say, "While I value Fi more highly than Fe, I can see why people who emphasize Fe more might come to view Fi as selfish."

    She just asked how on earth anyone could possibly see Fi as selfish. I would think someone with a good understanding of Fe would be able to understand how this position comes about, even if she doesn't agree with it.
    The one thing you forgot to consider is that, just maybe, having strong Fi along with Fe, enables her to separate (false) perception from reality, and she knows deep down that Fi is indeed not selfish.

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