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Thread: Thomas Kuhn

  1. #11
    Senior Member Blackwater's Avatar
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    I don't see this happening. Usually you just cite a certain feature of the thinker's intellectual character and conclude that their type is one that corresponds to this feature the most.
    that doesnt really contradict what i said. in the case of kuhn for example, i dont know much about him. even so, i go by the few pieces of evidence that I do have.

    in the case of Socrates, by contrast, I work professionally with the primary sources and the scholarship surrounding him.

    in both cases, I take in the evidence that is present in my attention. if people wish to help out by bringing up more evidence to my attention thats nice. if they dont wish to contribute thats ok as well. if they just want to bitch and moan i wish they would find some other outlet though

    Those lists were posted over two years ago, I have been long aware that they contain deep flaws.
    did you write it anywhere I might have noticed, or were we just supposed to know?

    It merits a reasonable discussion only as much as any other claim that is unsupported or poorly supported.
    if you have read your popper (or even your kuhn) you would have noticed that poorly supported claims are more valuable than no claims at all

    Your website shall gladly join the company of other folk typologists who have deluged the web which consist of an arbitrary succession of personality descriptions illicitly generalized to represent large groups of people or heroes of history.
    cool!
    best collection of philosopher typings online

    http://www.celebritytypes.com/philosophers/

  2. #12
    Artisan Conquerer Halla74's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by SolitaryWalker View Post
    There is no need for a challenge if you keep on claiming that a certain intellectual's type is defined by the ideas they submitted to a professional publisher.
    That's just your opinion, and in my opinion, your opinion is incorrect.

    Quote Originally Posted by SolitaryWalker View Post
    Baseless assertions are to be frowned upon rather than honored in light of a serious discussion. Your website shall join the company of other folk typologists who have deluged the web with their profile descriptions that consist of a merely arbitrary succession of personality descriptions illicitly generalized to represent large groups of people or heroes of history.
    Just my opinion, but you have issued your fair share of baseless assertions as of late. Let he who is not guilty cast the first stone.
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    Type Stats:
    MBTI -> (E) 77.14% | (i) 22.86% ; (S) 60% | (n) 40% ; (T) 72.22% | (f) 27.78% ; (P) 51.43% | (j) 48.57%
    BIG 5 -> Extroversion 77% ; Accommodation 60% ; Orderliness 62% ; Emotional Stability 64% ; Open Mindedness 74%

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  3. #13
    Senior Member Blackwater's Avatar
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    actually what bluewing is doing is method acting to demonstrate his point: he thinks we should ascribe a special weight his oppinion simply because it is his opinon. in other words, he is giving us the giving ETJ-rutine, even though he is INTP, thereby demonstrating that we cannot take a person's utterances as indicative of his type!
    best collection of philosopher typings online

    http://www.celebritytypes.com/philosophers/

  4. #14
    Sniffles
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    To type somebody purely on their writings or argument is rather half-assed; but I wouldn't say it's completely irrelevant to typing somebody when combined with a study of their life.

  5. #15
    Artisan Conquerer Halla74's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Blackwater View Post
    actually what bluewing is doing is method acting to demonstrate his point: he thinks we should ascribe a special weight his oppinion simply because it is his opinon. in other words, he is giving us the giving ETJ-rutine, even though he is INTP, thereby demonstrating that we cannot take a person's utterances as indicative of his type!
    I see. Thank you for clarifying that, it makes perfect sense now. Have a good day!
    --------------------
    Type Stats:
    MBTI -> (E) 77.14% | (i) 22.86% ; (S) 60% | (n) 40% ; (T) 72.22% | (f) 27.78% ; (P) 51.43% | (j) 48.57%
    BIG 5 -> Extroversion 77% ; Accommodation 60% ; Orderliness 62% ; Emotional Stability 64% ; Open Mindedness 74%

    Quotes:
    "If somebody asks your MBTI type on a first date, run". -Donna Cecilia
    "Enneagram is psychological underpinnings. Cognitive Functions are mental reasoning and perceptional processes. -Sanjuro

  6. #16
    Blah Orangey's Avatar
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    Just saw this on the new posts feed thingy and had to respond. First of all, I don't find that there is much similar in either style or content between Kuhn and Arendt. Second, even if I did, their "banal thinking" is in no way indicative of any particular personality type. Third, and this is unrelated to the type issue, but I disagree with Blackwater's value judgment regarding the merits of Kuhn and Arendt's work. I am always suspicious of anyone who dismisses someone's work out of hand, as this is usually evidence that they were not properly prepared to read the work in the first place.
    Artes, Scientia, Veritasiness

  7. #17
    Tenured roisterer SolitaryWalker's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Blackwater View Post
    actually what bluewing is doing is method acting to demonstrate his point: he thinks we should ascribe a special weight his oppinion simply because it is his opinon. in other words, he is giving us the giving ETJ-rutine, even though he is INTP, thereby demonstrating that we cannot take a person's utterances as indicative of his type!
    You've got me all figured out!

    Quote Originally Posted by Orangey View Post
    Just saw this on the new posts feed thingy and had to respond. First of all, I don't find that there is much similar in either style or content between Kuhn and Arendt. Second, even if I did, their "banal thinking" is in no way indicative of any particular personality type..
    It may be indicative of a certain 'personality type' or simply some vague definition of a folk typological type. That is, how for example, David Keirsey defines an ENFJ or how countless online profiles do. However, as you perhaps meant to claim, being a banal thinker does not point towards having a certain temperament or having a set of solidified cognitive dispositions. Somebody does not become banal mostly on the basis of their Feeling dominant preference, usually it is more of a result of their personal experiences. However, that's not exactly what most 'personality type' profiles lead us to believe. They carry across the following idea.

    J-Organized
    P-Laid back
    T-Rational
    F-Sentimental
    N-Creative
    S-Simple and 'practical'

    Blackwater probably assumed that an ENFJ is a banal thinker because people who are both creative and sentimental are more likely to be so than those who are creative and rational. He didn't say that Kuhn was a banal thinker, period, he said he was a 'kind of' banal thinker. So, somewhat banal, perhaps in comparison to the other more rational scholars!



    Quote Originally Posted by Halla74 View Post
    Just my opinion, but you have issued your fair share of baseless assertions as of late. Let he who is not guilty cast the first stone.
    There is a big difference between something that is baseless and something that only seems such to you because you're incapable of understanding its supporting rationale.
    "Do not argue with an idiot. They drag you down to their level and beat you with experience." -- Mark Twain

    “No man but a blockhead ever wrote, except for money.”---Samuel Johnson

    My blog: www.randommeanderings123.blogspot.com/

  8. #18
    Blah Orangey's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by SolitaryWalker View Post
    It may be indicative of a certain 'personality type' or simply some vague definition of a folk typological type. That is, how for example, David Keirsey defines an ENFJ or how countless online profiles do. However, as you perhaps meant to claim, being a banal thinker does not point towards having a certain temperament or having a set of solidified cognitive dispositions. Somebody does not become banal mostly on the basis of their Feeling dominant preference, usually it is more of a result of their personal experiences. However, that's not exactly what most 'personality type' profiles lead us to believe. They carry across the following idea.

    J-Organized
    P-Laid back
    T-Rational
    F-Sentimental
    N-Creative
    S-Simple and 'practical'

    Blackwater probably assumed that an ENFJ is a banal thinker because people who are both creative and sentimental are more likely to be so than those who are creative and rational. He didn't say that Kuhn was a banal thinker, period, he said he was a 'kind of' banal thinker. So, somewhat banal, perhaps in comparison to the other more rational scholars!
    Yes, I agree that it is nonsense to extrapolate disposition or temperament from single instances of behavior. It seemed to me that this is exactly what Blackwater was doing. Kuhn wrote a book which Blackwater found to exhibit "kind of banal thinking"; this banal thinking is, according to Blackwater, more ENFJ than anything else; therefore Kuhn is probably an ENFJ.

    So yes, I agree that a person's real temperament is not the same as the "folk typological" temperament, which is based on a person's adherence to sets of stereotyped behaviors. If the "situationists" in social psychology have taught us anything, it is that we cannot use general notions of character or personality to predict an individual's behavior in any specific instance. Behavior is far more likely to be governed, as you say, by the person's history, and also by specific (sometimes subtle, trivial) aspects of the situation (context) in which the behavior is performed. Knowing this, it does not make sense to take specific instances of behavior and generalize character or personality traits from these.
    Artes, Scientia, Veritasiness

  9. #19
    Tenured roisterer SolitaryWalker's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Orangey View Post
    If the "situationists" in social psychology have taught us anything, it is that we cannot use general notions of character or personality to predict an individual's behavior in any specific instance. Behavior is far more likely to be governed, as you say, by the person's history, and also by specific (sometimes subtle, trivial) aspects of the situation (context) in which the behavior is performed. Knowing this, it does not make sense to take specific instances of behavior and generalize character or personality traits from these.
    This shows that the salient conclusion David Keirsey has drawn in Please Understand Me is altogether untenable. He stated the thesis of his project in the opening passages by claiming that knowledge of a person's type has predictive value with regard to his behavior. A significant quantity of our members are in agreement with this view, which is more interesting of a fact about them rather than about the study of temperaments.
    "Do not argue with an idiot. They drag you down to their level and beat you with experience." -- Mark Twain

    “No man but a blockhead ever wrote, except for money.”---Samuel Johnson

    My blog: www.randommeanderings123.blogspot.com/

  10. #20
    Gotta catch you all! Blackmail!'s Avatar
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    Sadly, I have to agree with our dear Solitary Walker on one important point: When you try to type somebody, at least try to explain in details why. This is something Blackwater never did: it's always vague, half-backed ideas that have no support at all: Zero rationality, totally empty and arbitrary claims that have no context at all.

    Hannah Arendt? A "kind of banal" thinker?
    What is it supposed to mean?
    Has he *really* read her works? Has he really put them into context: why, when, how, and who?

    While I do not entirely agree with SW's own conclusions when he tried to type some prominent philosophers (especially when he concluded all of them were in fact INTPs ), at least he explained why, and following a consistent method. Of course it is my right to disagree with his method (which is far from being perfect), but at least, there's a solid basis for discussion, if we want to start one.
    And furthermore, I have also noticed that SW's own conclusions are becoming subtler and subtler with each new incoming year. Somehow, I have to ackowledge he constantly challenges his own presumed biases and notices new possibilities, new hypothesis, even if it took him a certain amount of time.

    But even then, such new hypothesis are NEVER (totally) arbitrary, and NEVER just pop out of nowhere. That's important, that's what I respect.

    Sometimes the method is more important than the conclusion (I know, that's my Ti bias! :rolli.
    The journey is more important than the destination.
    "A man who only drinks water has a secret to hide from his fellow-men" -Baudelaire

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