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View Poll Results: What type is House?

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  • INTP

    74 18.09%
  • INTJ

    121 29.58%
  • INFP

    2 0.49%
  • INFJ

    2 0.49%
  • ISTP

    4 0.98%
  • ISTJ

    4 0.98%
  • ISFP

    2 0.49%
  • ISFJ

    5 1.22%
  • ESFJ

    6 1.47%
  • ESFP

    5 1.22%
  • ESTJ

    3 0.73%
  • ESTP

    1 0.24%
  • ENFJ

    1 0.24%
  • ENFP

    1 0.24%
  • ENTJ

    25 6.11%
  • ENTP

    153 37.41%
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  1. #341
    Senior Member ptgatsby's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by INTJMom View Post
    Thank you.

    I don't understand the tact thing.
    I thought that was an F or T indicator: Ts tend to be blunt, Fs tend to be diplomatic.
    Is that not true?
    It's slightly false...

    Fs are about empathy and compassion on one end, but accepting and tender on the other. Inbetween you have accommodating, which is what you likely mean by diplomatic.

    However, this is seperate from the tact portion, which is about how one expresses oneself to the world (rather than accommodates other's preferences). There is a conceptual overlap, but are quite seperate in practise.

    That is to say that an ExFx will attempt to be tactful and accommodate your request, while an IxTx will not care to accomodate you and not care what they say to you about it. Inbetween you have the ExTx, who might be selective with their words but won't accommodate your request, or the IxFx that might tell you exactly what they think while they accommodate you anyway.

    (Above are loose examples, just to help think about the different scope of each trait... I don't have the actual sub-trait breakdown questions, so I can't give a real example.)

  2. #342
    Senior Member INTJMom's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by ptgatsby View Post
    It's slightly false...

    Fs are about empathy and compassion on one end, but accepting and tender on the other. Inbetween you have accommodating, which is what you likely mean by diplomatic.

    However, this is seperate from the tact portion, which is about how one expresses oneself to the world (rather than accommodates other's preferences). There is a conceptual overlap, but are quite seperate in practise.

    That is to say that an ExFx will attempt to be tactful and accommodate your request, while an IxTx will not care to accomodate you and not care what they say to you about it. Inbetween you have the ExTx, who might be selective with their words but won't accommodate your request, or the IxFx that might tell you exactly what they think while they accommodate you anyway.

    (Above are loose examples, just to help think about the different scope of each trait... I don't have the actual sub-trait breakdown questions, so I can't give a real example.)
    I see what you're saying.

    I was taught that an F is careful with their words - diplomatic in the speech. They choose their words in such a way as to not hurt the feelings of the hearer.

    A T tends to believe the truth is more important that a person's feelings and speak the truth even though it might hurt someone's feeling - tactless.

    But the system you mention attributes that to E/I instead of T/F.

  3. #343
    Senior Member ptgatsby's Avatar
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    In case it helps, here are the F/T sub-sub traits

    F:
    EMPATHETIC - Personal, seek understanding, central values
    COMPASSIONATE - Tactful, sympathetic, loyal
    ACCOMMODATING - Approving, agreeable, want harmony
    ACCEPTING - Tolerant, trusting, give praise
    TENDER Gentle, tender-hearted, means-oriented

    T:
    LOGICAL Impersonal, seek impartiality, objective analysis
    REASONABLE Truthful, cause-and-effect, apply principles
    QUESTIONING Precise, challenging, want discussion
    CRITICAL Skeptical, want proof, critique
    TOUGH Firm, tough-minded, ends-oriented

    As far as agreeableness goes (the FFM T/F divide, but this doesn't correlate as well, so it's just for your information);

    Service
    T: More interested in self needs
    F: More interested in others’ needs

    Agreement
    T: Welcomes engagement
    F: Seeks harmony

    Deference
    T: Wants acknowledgement
    F: Uncomfor-table with acknowledgement

    Reserve
    T: Usually expresses opinions
    F: Keeps opinions to self

    Reticence
    T: Enjoys being out front
    F: Prefers the background

  4. #344
    Occasional Member Evan's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by ptgatsby View Post
    It's slightly false...

    Fs are about empathy and compassion on one end, but accepting and tender on the other. Inbetween you have accommodating, which is what you likely mean by diplomatic.

    However, this is seperate from the tact portion, which is about how one expresses oneself to the world (rather than accommodates other's preferences). There is a conceptual overlap, but are quite seperate in practise.

    That is to say that an ExFx will attempt to be tactful and accommodate your request, while an IxTx will not care to accomodate you and not care what they say to you about it. Inbetween you have the ExTx, who might be selective with their words but won't accommodate your request, or the IxFx that might tell you exactly what they think while they accommodate you anyway.

    (Above are loose examples, just to help think about the different scope of each trait... I don't have the actual sub-trait breakdown questions, so I can't give a real example.)
    actually ExFx isn't more likely to be tactful than IxFx. xxFJ is more likely to be tactful than xxFP. that's because Fe is focused on group dynamics and Fi is focused internally.

    an xxFP may end up being tactful anyways because their internally defined value system may have tact as a high priority. but there's nothing inherent about Fi that makes it tactful.

    (please please please back me up on this....someone)

  5. #345
    Occasional Member Evan's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by ptgatsby View Post
    Service
    T: More interested in self needs
    F: More interested in others’ needs
    Te: interested in task efficiency
    Fe: interested in others' needs
    Ti: interested in knowledge gathering
    Fi: interested in application of personal values

    Agreement
    T: Welcomes engagement
    F: Seeks harmony
    Te: won't agree unless something is efficient
    Fe: will try to get the group to reach common ground
    Ti: will agree if it makes logical sense, will disagree if not
    Fi: will agree as long as it's "good" not "bad"

    Deference
    T: Wants acknowledgement
    F: Uncomfor-table with acknowledgement
    Te: will defer if efficient
    Fe: will defer if harmonious
    Ti: will defer if logical
    Fi: will defer if "good"

    Reserve
    T: Usually expresses opinions
    F: Keeps opinions to self
    Te: will express opinions about how to make things run better
    Fe: will express opinions about how to bring the group together
    Ti: will express opinions if something doesn't make logical sense
    Fi: will express opinions if something is "immoral"

    this is heavily affected by I vs. E

    Reticence
    T: Enjoys being out front
    F: Prefers the background
    this is an E vs. I divide, not a T vs. F one.

  6. #346
    Senior Member INTJMom's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by dissonance View Post
    Te: interested in task efficiency
    Fe: interested in others' needs
    Ti: interested in knowledge gathering
    Fi: interested in application of personal values


    Te: won't agree unless something is efficient
    Fe: will try to get the group to reach common ground
    Ti: will agree if it makes logical sense, will disagree if not
    Fi: will agree as long as it's "good" not "bad"


    Te: will defer if efficient
    Fe: will defer if harmonious
    Ti: will defer if logical
    Fi: will defer if "good"


    Te: will express opinions about how to make things run better
    Fe: will express opinions about how to bring the group together
    Ti: will express opinions if something doesn't make logical sense
    Fi: will express opinions if something is "immoral"

    this is heavily affected by I vs. E


    this is an E vs. I divide, not a T vs. F one.
    According to that, I'm a Te.

  7. #347
    Senior Member ptgatsby's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by dissonance View Post
    actually ExFx isn't more likely to be tactful than IxFx. xxFJ is more likely to be tactful than xxFP. that's because Fe is focused on group dynamics and Fi is focused internally.
    Well, first, the difference is Fi-Ne vs Ne-Fi and Fe-Ni vs Ni-Fe saying that Xe dominant is more likely to pay attention to the outside world and be aware of their impact.

    And either way, that's great, in theory. Do you have a reason, other than theory, to believe this?

    (As far as the breakdown goes, that's from MBTI Step II. The sub-traits listed are assumed under the 4 traits and they are, as much as is possible, individual/unique. Well, ignoring that it's the questions that are under each sub-trait that would be unique - the descriptors leave something to be desired.)

  8. #348
    Occasional Member Evan's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by INTJMom View Post
    According to that, I'm a Te.
    yeah, of course you're Te. the function breakdown of INTJ is Ni, Te

  9. #349
    Occasional Member Evan's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by ptgatsby View Post
    Well, first, the difference is Fi-Ne vs Ne-Fi and Fe-Ni vs Ni-Fe saying that Xe dominant is more likely to pay attention to the outside world and be aware of their impact.

    And either way, that's great, in theory. Do you have a reason, other than theory, to believe this?

    (As far as the breakdown goes, that's from MBTI Step II. The sub-traits listed are assumed under the 4 traits and they are, as much as is possible, individual/unique. Well, ignoring that it's the questions that are under each sub-trait that would be unique - the descriptors leave something to be desired.)
    why would i have reasons other than theory? that's just the definition. thats all.

    did you want me to make up some false definitions and use those? i don't get it.

    "Well, first, the difference is Fi-Ne vs Ne-Fi and Fe-Ni vs Ni-Fe saying that Xe dominant is more likely to pay attention to the outside world and be aware of their impact."

    we were talking about thinking and feeling, not perceiving functions. the feeling functions of IxFJ and ExFJ are exactly the same. the amount of time spent in that particular function is the only thing affected by I vs. E.

    so, sure...an IxFJ would use Fe less often than an ExFJ.
    but an IxFP would use Fi MORE often than an ExFP.

    and Fi and Fe are very different anyway.

  10. #350
    no clinkz 'til brooklyn Nocapszy's Avatar
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    PT, the difference between you and dissonance is that he doesn't define the functions by what we see in people who've tested a certain way. We use the provided definitions, and use them as 'logic gates' for determining type. Asking him if he's got any other reason than theory for something is wasteful, since they serve as the steady rules, to which type has to conform. You're clearly approaching the concept in exactly the opposite direction he and I are.

    Really, what he's using isn't a theory. It's just putting names to information uptake and organization modes.

    Consider:

    "ti builds a logical framework in the mind"

    If whatever a person is doing is NOT building a logical framework in their mind, then they're not using Ti, they're using something else.

    or

    'Ne find analogies between seemingly unrelated events through recognition of patterns and paralleling them"

    If someone is say, wondering at the morality of an event and putting that into a bank of stored moral gates, we know they're not using Ne. It's something else.

    So whether it originated in theory or not, you can tell, if someone consistently speaks in metaphors/similies saying things like "It works like a rotor in that it does..." or similarly, then they're using Ne. It doesn't necessarily speak to their preferences -- that has to be deciphered over time, but behavioral typing can be done.

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