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View Poll Results: What type is House?

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  • INTP

    74 18.09%
  • INTJ

    121 29.58%
  • INFP

    2 0.49%
  • INFJ

    2 0.49%
  • ISTP

    4 0.98%
  • ISTJ

    4 0.98%
  • ISFP

    2 0.49%
  • ISFJ

    5 1.22%
  • ESFJ

    6 1.47%
  • ESFP

    5 1.22%
  • ESTJ

    3 0.73%
  • ESTP

    1 0.24%
  • ENFJ

    1 0.24%
  • ENFP

    1 0.24%
  • ENTJ

    25 6.11%
  • ENTP

    153 37.41%
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  1. #321
    Lex Parsimoniae Xander's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Nocapszy View Post
    Either way, if the introvert is extraverted, he's still an extravert. That's like saying, well wouldn't he be a woman if he had tits and a vagina?
    Okie dokie unless someone can actually correct me I think this is a good point to direct you too discuss your understanding of the MBTI altogether. I don't mean to be confrontational and I don't care for scoring points right now. Introverts DO extrovert and can do for a significant portion of their lives. If this seems like a theory shattering concept that should be thrown out immediately then please do seek council on the whole theory.
    Isn't it time for a colourful metaphor?

  2. #322
    no clinkz 'til brooklyn Nocapszy's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Xander View Post
    Okie dokie unless someone can actually correct me I think this is a good point to direct you too discuss your understanding of the MBTI altogether. I don't mean to be confrontational and I don't care for scoring points right now. Introverts DO extrovert and can do for a significant portion of their lives. If this seems like a theory shattering concept that should be thrown out immediately then please do seek council on the whole theory.
    No you're right, you just left out half the story. You do realize that extraverts can introvert just as much as Is can E.

  3. #323
    Senior Member INTJMom's Avatar
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    Well then why should we even bother making distinctions?

  4. #324
    Senior Member ptgatsby's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by INTJMom View Post
    Well then why should we even bother making distinctions?
    That's because the explanation is fuzzy thinking.

    Intoversion is pretty basic. Across almost every test that measures the degree of introversion, there are the few notable traits. No one has all of them - these are simply bunches of common traits that make up introversion.

    Here are the main traits within FFM (from Centacs) (MBTI down below) and their Introversion equivalent;

    Enthusiasm - Holds down positive feelings
    Sociability - Prefers working alone
    Energy Mode - Prefers being still in one place
    Taking Charge - Prefers being independent of others
    Trust of others - Skepitcal of others
    Tact - Speaks without regard for consequences.

    In MBTI there are 5 sub traits that roll up into introversion - here they are with a loose definition of them (from CPP's STEP II Interpretive report)

    Receiving - Reserved, Low-key, are introduced
    Contained - Controlled, harder to know, private
    Intimate - Seek Intimacy, One-on-one, find individuals
    Reflective - Onlooker, Prefer space, Read and write
    Quiet - Calm, Enjoy solitude, seek background.

    House is strongly I in terms of FFM, but not so strongly I in terms of MBTI, although I would say far more I than E... a lot of this has to do with mapping to functions in MBTI.

    Also, the thing to note is that these are meant to be universal traits - seeking attention at work to show off is only one small part of life. Doing it at work alone is a bad indicator - it means he exhausts himself for work because it is required. We all do that.

    The problem with House is that he is a fictional character - his behaviour isn't consistent. He's also a drug addict, socially anxious and abused person. It is impossible to type him - even if he was a real person, he would not be considered a typable person.

    However, his behaviour is very direct and linear. He is a problem solver - he comes in, solves a problem, goes home. An ENTP in that position would be nothing like him - he isn't an information gatherer, he isn't curious, not worried about the big picture, not open to others and not energetic. He carries through - to the point of breaking any rule he wants, using anything he wants and abusing whomever he wants. It is only the problem that prompts action. He has almost none of the extraverted traits - especially not the ones that are well supported biologically (emotions and seeking highs). Many of his particular quirks (his office being "his space" and needing it "his way") are decidedly introverted tendencies...

    Seeing one extroverted tendency does not make him an extrovert - I've known quite a few INTJs and they are also very much attention seekers... in a specific narrow quality, typically in their area of expertise. In the very start of house, when asked why he had those team members, it was about "how to get things done" - he hired them based upon being cute, being a thief and... uhhh... damn, forgot the third (something to prove?). These people are pawns - all people are pawns. This is not an ENTP mindset... actually, not an E mindset at all.

    As far as the writting thing goes - INTJs are gigantic writers. Journals, thoughts... The INTJ I started a company with wrote papers for fun... Non has journals going back 15 years - look at the blog now. INTJs here write about religion, about their lives... You'll note that this is even an introverted trait in MBTI. Plus, he's solving a problem - an INTJ will do just about anything to solve a problem.

    That same INTJ has the nickname "Peacock" because he loves showing off his feathers... least, when it comes down to his interests.

    Needing an audience is simply one small part of the show - a forced example to entertain. The way his life is - at home, outside of work, his hobbies...

    I could just as easily say that House is a F because he has repeatedly risked his career to help patients (which is actually feasible since at the very start of the show it becomes clear that if he meets a patient - considers them human - he ends up respecting them).

  5. #325
    Senior Member INTJMom's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by ptgatsby View Post
    ...
    Here are the main traits within FFM (from Centacs) (MBTI down below) and their Introversion equivalent;

    Enthusiasm - Holds down positive feelings
    Sociability - Prefers working alone
    Energy Mode - Prefers being still in one place
    Taking Charge - Prefers being independent of others
    Trust of others - Skepitcal of others
    Tact - Speaks without regard for consequences.

    In MBTI there are 5 sub traits that roll up into introversion - here they are with a loose definition of them (from CPP's STEP II Interpretive report)

    Receiving - Reserved, Low-key, are introduced
    Contained - Controlled, harder to know, private
    Intimate - Seek Intimacy, One-on-one, find individuals
    Reflective - Onlooker, Prefer space, Read and write
    Quiet - Calm, Enjoy solitude, seek background.

    ...
    Would you mind doing this for extraversion too please?
    I'd just like to see how they're different.

  6. #326
    Senior Member ptgatsby's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by INTJMom View Post
    Would you mind doing this for extraversion too please?
    I'd just like to see how they're different.
    Sure - MBTI;

    Initiating - Sociable, Congenial, Introduces people
    Expressive - Demonstrative, easier to know, self-revealing
    Gregarious - Seek populatiry, broad circle, join groups
    Active - Interactive, want contact, Listen and speak
    Enthusiastic - Lively, Energetic, seek spotlight.

    FFM;

    Enthusiasm - Shows a lot of positive feelings
    Sociability - Prefers working with others
    Energy Mode - Prefers to be physically active
    Taking Charge - Enjoys responsibility of leading others
    Trust of Others - Readily trusts others
    Tact - Carefully selects the right words

    (They are pretty much just opposites, but there you go.)

  7. #327
    Occasional Member Evan's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by ptgatsby View Post
    Honestly, coming from people who are misusing terms like reliability and validity and not understanding fundamental aspects of factor analysis and such... In any case, I'm afraid your version of "I read a book and I can type people well" fails to impress me... and constantly saying "I know more than you so I'm right" is a very poor argument.
    "I know more than you so I'm right" is not my attitude at all.

    i'm just amazed that you would try shooting down a theory that you don't understand. that is all.

    plus, i don't think i ever said "reliability" or "validity", and even if i did, i don't remember making a strong argument.

    "I'm afraid your version of "I read a book and I can type people well" fails to impress me"

    well, i wasn't trying to impress you. and that really has nothing to do with my argument. all i was saying is that i've obviously studied the functions more than you have. end.

    there are huge problems with function theory, too; and i'm not 100% at typing people, obviously. i think i just got a little emotional because you chose to argue against something that you didn't understand, and you argued pretty strongly at that. and just as i was condescending to you, you were condescending to me.




    on to the topic: house is obviously an extrovert; he seeks out wilson when he has problems; he bounces ideas off a team (Ne) (or even the janitor in that one episode). he uses Ti more than Te, too; analyzing possible ideas based on frameworks.

  8. #328
    Senior Member ptgatsby's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by dissonance View Post
    plus, i don't think i ever said "reliability" or "validity", and even if i did, i don't remember making a strong argument.
    Hmm, apologies, I meant that for Nocapszy.

    there are huge problems with function theory, too; and i'm not 100% at typing people, obviously. i think i just got a little emotional because you chose to argue against something that you didn't understand, and you argued pretty strongly at that. and just as i was condescending to you, you were condescending to me.
    I do understand it, actually, it just isn't relevent. Your method of determining functions in people is simply your subjective opinion, which I can respect as your opinion. Previous to your inclusion in the argument, the line that was being fed was "I'm right and your wrong because I know and you don't", which I guess is still what is being said.

    That's not an argument. See the breakdown I posted above? That's the start of one. That's a systemic discovery of behaviours and traits that are associated with extraversion. It's a framework to determine, rather than do this;

    on to the topic: house is obviously an extrovert; he seeks out wilson when he has problems; he bounces ideas off a team (Ne) (or even the janitor in that one episode). he uses Ti more than Te, too; analyzing possible ideas based on frameworks.
    House is obviously an introvert; he lives alone; he holds information close to his chest (Ni). He uses Te more than Ti, too; he constantly controls his world and manipulates/orders others and events.

    Subjective hanging of behaviour makes it just that - subjective.

    In any case,

    Saying he is ENTP is saying that he tests E-N-T-P. The argument is if ENTP means Ne-Ti or not, which MBTI says it does. However, if you disagree or are not using MBTI, you do not claim he is ENTP, anymore than ENTP is socionics ENT(j/p).

  9. #329
    Occasional Member Evan's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by ptgatsby View Post
    House is obviously an introvert; he lives alone; he holds information close to his chest (Ni). He uses Te more than Ti, too; he constantly controls his world and manipulates/orders others and events.

    Subjective hanging of behaviour makes it just that - subjective.

    In any case,

    Saying he is ENTP is saying that he tests E-N-T-P. The argument is if ENTP means Ne-Ti or not, which MBTI says it does. However, if you disagree or are not using MBTI, you do not claim he is ENTP, anymore than ENTP is socionics ENT(j/p).
    actually "holds information close to his chest" is not Ni. that's probably Ti. and living alone does not make someone an introvert....in fact, i think that has much more to do with his drug addiction. i think if house was really an introvert, he wouldn't rely on teams anywhere near as much as he does. he certainly wouldn't sit the janitor down just to have someone to bounce ideas off of.

    i'll agree that he does use Te, but i think he uses Ti more. he has a framework for diagnostics in his head, and he generates ideas (Ne) that he analyzes with the framework (Ti). the reason he comes off as so sure of himself is that his Ti has deduced something beyond a certain doubt threshold.

  10. #330
    Senior Member ptgatsby's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by dissonance View Post
    actually "holds information close to his chest" is not Ni. that's probably Ti.
    I'd say Ni. As being an irrational function, he solves his problems through internal information then brings them to live through his rational function - Ni-Te.

    He does not seek out information except as required (Ne/Se) and then process a decision internally to make sense of it (Ti). He runs through his own index of knowledge (Ni/Si) then goes to make the world match up (Te).

    and living alone does not make someone an introvert....in fact, i think that has much more to do with his drug addiction. i think if house was really an introvert, he wouldn't rely on teams anywhere near as much as he does. he certainly wouldn't sit the janitor down just to have someone to bounce ideas off of.
    I was just pointing out that there are lots of ways to make generalisations more than making the argument... I posted the sub-traits of introversion (two versions) up above. The argument would be that his general life is introverted - it is only for problem solving that he starts ordering the world (inferior Te - it is subject to Ni first, making his dominant function introverted)... but also that he has a real lack of positive emotions, small social (any social) group, etc. The E/I isn't as clear (hierarchy) as the attitude is, however, but I would say that he has a lot more I tendencies than E.

    i'll agree that he does use Te, but i think he uses Ti more. he has a framework for diagnostics in his head, and he generates ideas (Ne) that he analyzes with the framework (Ti).
    The generation of ideas comes with the concept of "seeing what is possible"... the big picture. That's Ne. House is not a visionary, he is a problem solver. He doesn't flit around from possibility to possibility, he methodically solves the most likely possibility before moving on to the next - until he is faced with a patient that might die first, but even then, very limited. He doesn't hesitate to get new information - the first logical sign is the moment he steps into action. Ne is big picture - he is about as small picture as he can be and tries to keep it that way.

    As far as Ti... Ti orders concepts internally, to make sense of situations. Te drives control and ordering outside of him... as in, directing his minions, finding solutions, making things happen. He doesn't sit back and do medical theory - he is out there, solving problems. That is absolutely Ni vision and Te ordering.

    the reason he comes off as so sure of himself is that his Ti has deduced something beyond a certain doubt threshold.
    No, it's because he has decided to take action. Even in situations where he isn't sure what to do, he just finds the most likely action and does it. He doesn't open up journals or ask for advice - he doesn't gather information. He processes his own information, seeking the guidance he needs in order to order his world.

    His confidence comes when his vision says "this is what I must do to create order"... nothing stands in his way of creating order. He will risk job, limb, life and the patient just to create order.

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