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View Poll Results: What type is House?

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  • INTP

    74 18.09%
  • INTJ

    121 29.58%
  • INFP

    2 0.49%
  • INFJ

    2 0.49%
  • ISTP

    4 0.98%
  • ISTJ

    4 0.98%
  • ISFP

    2 0.49%
  • ISFJ

    5 1.22%
  • ESFJ

    6 1.47%
  • ESFP

    5 1.22%
  • ESTJ

    3 0.73%
  • ESTP

    1 0.24%
  • ENFJ

    1 0.24%
  • ENFP

    1 0.24%
  • ENTJ

    25 6.11%
  • ENTP

    153 37.41%
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Results 261 to 270 of 1047

  1. #261
    On a mission Usehername's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Natrushka View Post
    I just saw the season opener. He wants / needs an audience. He hates that he needs them, but he needs them.
    I would argue that this is simply any NT seeking to be seen as a genius and competent at what they do.

    Can any NTs argue that this isn't the case for them, intraverted or extraverted, J or P?
    *You don't have a soul. You are a Soul. You have a body.
    *Faith is the art of holding on to things your reason once accepted, despite your changing moods.
    C.S. Lewis

  2. #262
    Senior Member ptgatsby's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by dissonance View Post
    okay let me think of an example question:

    you adhere to social norms while interacting with people:
    1) most of the time
    2) not really

    an mbti test would score you as an F if you answered 1.

    but Fi does not care about social norms, only Fe does.

    so an INFP or something would say 2 and get scored as a T
    An MBTI test does not determine attitude for based upon F answers (this would not be a F question - the divide you speak of is because it would be based on J/P and/or S/N)... and again, the questions have been validated for being sufficiently far apart the midpoint in preferences to avoid exactly this kind of fuzzy situation (because social norms are not F based to start with - the illusion of such a stance comes from them being a part of empathy and general agreeableness, not wishing to rock the boat - this was tested for specifically by creating pools of behaviours... a question that is not valid is eliminated from the test). Again, assigning behaviour directly to functions did not work - that's why MBTI created the E/I hierarchy and the J/P attitude factors and the associated questions with them. Even using a matrix of answers (Ti/Te/Fi/Fe) proved unreliable.

    Now, one can disagree with MBTI or how it operates - that I understand. But it does determine attitude and hierarchy - one doesn't call House an ENTP if you don't agree with MBTI, merely Ne-Ti... MBTI created the E/I and J/P divide to sort attitude and hierarchy. To be a "P", you need to have been sorted through MBTI. By saying "ENTP", you are saying "MBTI sorting says his functions are Ne-Ti through their test".

    Quote Originally Posted by Nocapszy View Post
    Just because it gets it right a lot of the time, doesn't mean that a person can't do better.
    How is this an argument? A theoretical person can type functions hidden in someone's mind, so I'm going to ignore a validated and fully investegated method that doesn't agree with me...?

    Functions and types are the same thing. The only thing in question is how one determines what the functions are. On one hand you say you know and its possible to know if you know what to look for - on the other, you have an inventory test that has tried to know what to look for through some 60 years of research and a good 15 or so years of far more stringent scientific validation.


    (How did I become the one to defend MBTI? Egad. I'm washing my hands of this whole thing. I'm suppose to be the critic of MBTI here! Gah.)

  3. #263
    Occasional Member Evan's Avatar
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    give me a test you think is reliable. i'll look through it and find a better example of what i'm talking about.

    you know mbti was created AFTER function theory right?

  4. #264
    Occasional Member Evan's Avatar
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    "one doesn't call House an ENTP if you don't agree with MBTI"

    i see your perspective. we just have different definitions of mbti. i think of mbti as an abbreviation of your first and second most used function. you think of mbti as 4 entirely separate binary oppositions. that's what this whole argument is about.

    so, we're both right.

    my opinion, though, is that your mbti is much less accurate. function theory can account for many things that your mbti can't.

  5. #265
    Senior Member ptgatsby's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by dissonance View Post
    give me a test you think is reliable. i'll look through it and find a better example of what i'm talking about.
    Any Step II test would do (ideally form G) - unfortunately, they are under copyright and so they aren't widely available. If you curious what the real test is, you also have to go through a certified group (they have a clinician follow up to ensure type and interpret the data for you). There are lots around that you can do on the web, if you pay (here.

    you know mbti was created AFTER function theory right?
    I wrote the history out in response to you just a dozen or so message above, so I'm somewhat aware of it, yes.

    Quote Originally Posted by dissonance View Post
    my opinion, though, is that your mbti is much less accurate. function theory can account for many things that your mbti can't.


    Ok, that's it - I'm really out of this thread. I don't normally get involved in the MBTI discussions - and certainly not from this side of the fence... I can't defend something I don't agree with just because I disagree with something else even more. And it's worthy of it's own thread (and this is where bluewing, athenian and rivercrow are needed, not me.)

  6. #266
    Occasional Member Evan's Avatar
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    aw.....don't leave this discussion. i really want to show you my viewpoint. (i'm NFJ; it's not about winning, it's about helping you get more accurate info.)

    can you think of a test that doesn't cost money i can look through?

    p.s. i'm not even disagreeing with you; i just want you to see the same flaw in mbti that i saw when i started looking at function theory.

  7. #267
    Senior Member Nonpareil's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by dissonance View Post
    aw.....don't leave this discussion. i really want to show you my viewpoint. (i'm NFJ; it's not about winning, it's about helping you get more accurate info.)
    You don't need to worry about that, pt knows how to get accurate info probably better than most people in the world. You're new here so you don't know yet. Pt is the info guy, he knows a lot and researches a lot.

    Personally, I will trust what he has to say because I have seen him in action. But that may be a bias statement...

    can you think of a test that doesn't cost money i can look through?
    A test that doesn't cost money will not be able to prove his point. The reason he argues the way he does is because of all the information he knows. He has seen good tests in action but like he said, it will cost money to look through such a test. He is the seeker of information and that is why he believes what he does.

    p.s. i'm not even disagreeing with you; i just want you to see the same flaw in mbti that i saw when i started looking at function theory.
    Personally, I think the flaw you see in mbti is from your lack in information. Since you haven't seen the true test to mbti and you definately haven't seen it applied properly, you can not assume it's flawed based on bad mbti tests.

    I don't understand function theory and many people have tried explaining it to me. From my standpoint, I see many flaws in it and it is less accurate than mbti. If you really can take that step back and see things for more than what you think it is, you will see the superiority in mbti over function theory. That is what I have learned through observation and what I gathered after a particular few have tried explaining functions to me.

    P.S. Oh, and welcome to mbtic!
    Sorry for any typos, spelling or grammer errors but I'm a bit preoccupied planning my wedding.
    Or if you want to read more about me and help me gain more insight to your world (I do need more experiences in life), feel free to skim through my blog.

  8. #268
    Occasional Member Evan's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Nonpareil View Post
    Personally, I think the flaw you see in mbti is from your lack in information. Since you haven't seen the true test to mbti and you definately haven't seen it applied properly, you can not assume it's flawed based on bad mbti tests.

    I don't understand function theory and many people have tried explaining it to me. From my standpoint, I see many flaws in it and it is less accurate than mbti. If you really can take that step back and see things for more than what you think it is, you will see the superiority in mbti over function theory. That is what I have learned through observation and what I gathered after a particular few have tried explaining functions to me.

    P.S. Oh, and welcome to mbtic!
    first of all, i've been studying/researching/talking about/analyzing mbti for about 2 years (i've been COMPLETELY OBSESSED), and i didn't know anything about functions until about 6 months ago. so i don't think i lack very much information. it's true that i've never paid for a test, but that's because i think self-analysis and study is more accurate.

    secondly, "you definately haven't seen it applied properly" is completely untrue and unfounded. unless you want to argue that my 18 months of research were worthless :-/

    third, you start your last paragraph with "I don't understand function theory" and go on to say "From my standpoint, I see many flaws in it and it is less accurate than mbti." and "If you really can take that step back and see things for more than what you think it is, you will see the superiority in mbti over function theory." if you don't understand the theory, why are you drawing such strong conclusions about it?


    my point is this: i've studied mbti AND function theory. and i understand BOTH of them.

    MBTI cannot differentiate between the N and F in xNFPs and xNFJs even though they are completely different. MBTI says xNFPs and xNFJs ONLY differ in the J vs. P spectrum.

    in function theory, which is what the mbti was originally based on, the kind of intuition and the kind of feeling that NFPs and NFJs use are different. this allows for a more accurate interpretation of cognitive functioning (not the jungian functions, but the more abstract concept).

    my qualm with mbti isn't a problem with the tests. its a problem with the application. mbti implies that an ENTP and an ENTJ are just as similar as an ENTP and an ENFP. this is NOT the case. ENTP and ENFP are much much more closely related than ENTP and ENTJ.

    you have to understand that mbti is an oversimplification of function theory, not vice versa. you can deduce mbti type from order of cognitive functions, but you cannot deduce function order from mbti alone.


    i really don't mean to come across as an asshole, but i can't help defending my stance.

  9. #269
    Senior Member ptgatsby's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by dissonance View Post
    you have to understand that mbti is an oversimplification of function theory, not vice versa. you can deduce mbti type from order of cognitive functions, but you cannot deduce function order from mbti alone.
    This is technically incorrect. MBTI tests the main two dimensions (S/N and F/T). J/P determines attitude (i/e) and E/I determines which attitude is dominant in the hierarchy.

    ie:

    INTP -> N, T (+P) -> Ne, Ti (+I) -> Ti-Ne(-Sx-Fe)
    ESFJ -> S, F (+J) -> Si, Fe (+E) -> Fe-Si(-Nx-Ti)

    The behaviours expressed in J/P are suppose to determine if the rational function is extroverted or introvered (and the irrational) through questions that extraverted rationals have - likewise for E/I, to see if they are predominantly outwardly focused or not.

  10. #270
    Occasional Member Evan's Avatar
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    i see what you're saying. but we have different definitions of introverted and extroverted functions. take, for example, Se and Si:

    your definition says for an Si person, their sensing is focused inward. what does this mean? i'll assume it means they sense things about themselves/their inner world. (correct me if i'm wrong).

    but in function theory, Si is defined completely differently. Si is a storehouse of past sensory information. it's basically a hard drive. so, in function theory, if you're Si-ing, you're looking at past experiences you've had.

    Se (in function theory) would more accurately correlate to the Si where you're sensing things about yourself. Se is basically seeing details about the current moment in time. So if you're feeling a certain way, Se will focus on the details of that feeling.


    so i'm not incorrect. i'm incorrect based on your definitions, true. but that's not function theory.

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