What type is House?

[Xander]

Either way, if the introvert is extraverted, he's still an extravert. That's like saying, well wouldn't he be a woman if he had tits and a vagina?

Okie dokie unless someone can actually correct me I think this is a good point to direct you too discuss your understanding of the MBTI altogether. I don't mean to be confrontational and I don't care for scoring points right now. Introverts DO extrovert and can do for a significant portion of their lives. If this seems like a theory shattering concept that should be thrown out immediately then please do seek council on the whole theory.

 

[Nocapszy]

Okie dokie unless someone can actually correct me I think this is a good point to direct you too discuss your understanding of the MBTI altogether. I don't mean to be confrontational and I don't care for scoring points right now. Introverts DO extrovert and can do for a significant portion of their lives. If this seems like a theory shattering concept that should be thrown out immediately then please do seek council on the whole theory.

No you're right, you just left out half the story. You do realize that extraverts can introvert just as much as Is can E.

 

[INTJMom]

Well then why should we even bother making distinctions?

 

[ptgatsby]

Well then why should we even bother making distinctions?

That's because the explanation is fuzzy thinking.

Intoversion is pretty basic. Across almost every test that measures the degree of introversion, there are the few notable traits. No one has all of them - these are simply bunches of common traits that make up introversion.

Here are the main traits within FFM (from Centacs) (MBTI down below) and their Introversion equivalent;

Enthusiasm - Holds down positive feelings
Sociability - Prefers working alone
Energy Mode - Prefers being still in one place
Taking Charge - Prefers being independent of others
Trust of others - Skepitcal of others
Tact - Speaks without regard for consequences.

In MBTI there are 5 sub traits that roll up into introversion - here they are with a loose definition of them (from CPP's STEP II Interpretive report)

Receiving - Reserved, Low-key, are introduced
Contained - Controlled, harder to know, private
Intimate - Seek Intimacy, One-on-one, find individuals
Reflective - Onlooker, Prefer space, Read and write
Quiet - Calm, Enjoy solitude, seek background.

House is strongly I in terms of FFM, but not so strongly I in terms of MBTI, although I would say far more I than E... a lot of this has to do with mapping to functions in MBTI.

Also, the thing to note is that these are meant to be universal traits - seeking attention at work to show off is only one small part of life. Doing it at work alone is a bad indicator - it means he exhausts himself for work because it is required. We all do that.

The problem with House is that he is a fictional character - his behaviour isn't consistent. He's also a drug addict, socially anxious and abused person. It is impossible to type him - even if he was a real person, he would not be considered a typable person.

However, his behaviour is very direct and linear. He is a problem solver - he comes in, solves a problem, goes home. An ENTP in that position would be nothing like him - he isn't an information gatherer, he isn't curious, not worried about the big picture, not open to others and not energetic. He carries through - to the point of breaking any rule he wants, using anything he wants and abusing whomever he wants. It is only the problem that prompts action. He has almost none of the extraverted traits - especially not the ones that are well supported biologically (emotions and seeking highs). Many of his particular quirks (his office being "his space" and needing it "his way") are decidedly introverted tendencies...

Seeing one extroverted tendency does not make him an extrovert - I've known quite a few INTJs and they are also very much attention seekers... in a specific narrow quality, typically in their area of expertise. In the very start of house, when asked why he had those team members, it was about "how to get things done" - he hired them based upon being cute, being a thief and... uhhh... damn, forgot the third (something to prove?). These people are pawns - all people are pawns. This is not an ENTP mindset... actually, not an E mindset at all.

As far as the writting thing goes - INTJs are gigantic writers. Journals, thoughts... The INTJ I started a company with wrote papers for fun... Non has journals going back 15 years - look at the blog now. INTJs here write about religion, about their lives... You'll note that this is even an introverted trait in MBTI. Plus, he's solving a problem - an INTJ will do just about anything to solve a problem.

That same INTJ has the nickname "Peacock" because he loves showing off his feathers... least, when it comes down to his interests.

Needing an audience is simply one small part of the show - a forced example to entertain. The way his life is - at home, outside of work, his hobbies...

I could just as easily say that House is a F because he has repeatedly risked his career to help patients (which is actually feasible since at the very start of the show it becomes clear that if he meets a patient - considers them human - he ends up respecting them).

 

[INTJMom]

...
Here are the main traits within FFM (from Centacs) (MBTI down below) and their Introversion equivalent;

Enthusiasm - Holds down positive feelings
Sociability - Prefers working alone
Energy Mode - Prefers being still in one place
Taking Charge - Prefers being independent of others
Trust of others - Skepitcal of others
Tact - Speaks without regard for consequences.

In MBTI there are 5 sub traits that roll up into introversion - here they are with a loose definition of them (from CPP's STEP II Interpretive report)

Receiving - Reserved, Low-key, are introduced
Contained - Controlled, harder to know, private
Intimate - Seek Intimacy, One-on-one, find individuals
Reflective - Onlooker, Prefer space, Read and write
Quiet - Calm, Enjoy solitude, seek background.

...

Would you mind doing this for extraversion too please?
I'd just like to see how they're different.

 

[ptgatsby]

Would you mind doing this for extraversion too please?
I'd just like to see how they're different.

Sure - MBTI;

Initiating - Sociable, Congenial, Introduces people
Expressive - Demonstrative, easier to know, self-revealing
Gregarious - Seek populatiry, broad circle, join groups
Active - Interactive, want contact, Listen and speak
Enthusiastic - Lively, Energetic, seek spotlight.

FFM;

Enthusiasm - Shows a lot of positive feelings
Sociability - Prefers working with others
Energy Mode - Prefers to be physically active
Taking Charge - Enjoys responsibility of leading others
Trust of Others - Readily trusts others
Tact - Carefully selects the right words

(They are pretty much just opposites, but there you go.)

 

[redacted]

Honestly, coming from people who are misusing terms like reliability and validity and not understanding fundamental aspects of factor analysis and such... In any case, I'm afraid your version of "I read a book and I can type people well" fails to impress me... and constantly saying "I know more than you so I'm right" is a very poor argument.

"I know more than you so I'm right" is not my attitude at all.

i'm just amazed that you would try shooting down a theory that you don't understand. that is all.

plus, i don't think i ever said "reliability" or "validity", and even if i did, i don't remember making a strong argument.

"I'm afraid your version of "I read a book and I can type people well" fails to impress me"

well, i wasn't trying to impress you. and that really has nothing to do with my argument. all i was saying is that i've obviously studied the functions more than you have. end.

there are huge problems with function theory, too; and i'm not 100% at typing people, obviously. i think i just got a little emotional because you chose to argue against something that you didn't understand, and you argued pretty strongly at that. and just as i was condescending to you, you were condescending to me.




on to the topic: house is obviously an extrovert; he seeks out wilson when he has problems; he bounces ideas off a team (Ne) (or even the janitor in that one episode). he uses Ti more than Te, too; analyzing possible ideas based on frameworks.

 

[ptgatsby]

plus, i don't think i ever said "reliability" or "validity", and even if i did, i don't remember making a strong argument.

Hmm, apologies, I meant that for Nocapszy.

there are huge problems with function theory, too; and i'm not 100% at typing people, obviously. i think i just got a little emotional because you chose to argue against something that you didn't understand, and you argued pretty strongly at that. and just as i was condescending to you, you were condescending to me.

I do understand it, actually, it just isn't relevent. Your method of determining functions in people is simply your subjective opinion, which I can respect as your opinion. Previous to your inclusion in the argument, the line that was being fed was "I'm right and your wrong because I know and you don't", which I guess is still what is being said.

That's not an argument. See the breakdown I posted above? That's the start of one. That's a systemic discovery of behaviours and traits that are associated with extraversion. It's a framework to determine, rather than do this;

on to the topic: house is obviously an extrovert; he seeks out wilson when he has problems; he bounces ideas off a team (Ne) (or even the janitor in that one episode). he uses Ti more than Te, too; analyzing possible ideas based on frameworks.

House is obviously an introvert; he lives alone; he holds information close to his chest (Ni). He uses Te more than Ti, too; he constantly controls his world and manipulates/orders others and events.

Subjective hanging of behaviour makes it just that - subjective.

In any case,

Saying he is ENTP is saying that he tests E-N-T-P. The argument is if ENTP means Ne-Ti or not, which MBTI says it does. However, if you disagree or are not using MBTI, you do not claim he is ENTP, anymore than ENTP is socionics ENT(j/p).

 

[redacted]

House is obviously an introvert; he lives alone; he holds information close to his chest (Ni). He uses Te more than Ti, too; he constantly controls his world and manipulates/orders others and events.

Subjective hanging of behaviour makes it just that - subjective.

In any case,

Saying he is ENTP is saying that he tests E-N-T-P. The argument is if ENTP means Ne-Ti or not, which MBTI says it does. However, if you disagree or are not using MBTI, you do not claim he is ENTP, anymore than ENTP is socionics ENT(j/p).

actually "holds information close to his chest" is not Ni. that's probably Ti. and living alone does not make someone an introvert....in fact, i think that has much more to do with his drug addiction. i think if house was really an introvert, he wouldn't rely on teams anywhere near as much as he does. he certainly wouldn't sit the janitor down just to have someone to bounce ideas off of.

i'll agree that he does use Te, but i think he uses Ti more. he has a framework for diagnostics in his head, and he generates ideas (Ne) that he analyzes with the framework (Ti). the reason he comes off as so sure of himself is that his Ti has deduced something beyond a certain doubt threshold.

 

[ptgatsby]

actually "holds information close to his chest" is not Ni. that's probably Ti.

I'd say Ni. As being an irrational function, he solves his problems through internal information then brings them to live through his rational function - Ni-Te.

He does not seek out information except as required (Ne/Se) and then process a decision internally to make sense of it (Ti). He runs through his own index of knowledge (Ni/Si) then goes to make the world match up (Te).

and living alone does not make someone an introvert....in fact, i think that has much more to do with his drug addiction. i think if house was really an introvert, he wouldn't rely on teams anywhere near as much as he does. he certainly wouldn't sit the janitor down just to have someone to bounce ideas off of.

I was just pointing out that there are lots of ways to make generalisations more than making the argument... I posted the sub-traits of introversion (two versions) up above. The argument would be that his general life is introverted - it is only for problem solving that he starts ordering the world (inferior Te - it is subject to Ni first, making his dominant function introverted)... but also that he has a real lack of positive emotions, small social (any social) group, etc. The E/I isn't as clear (hierarchy) as the attitude is, however, but I would say that he has a lot more I tendencies than E.

i'll agree that he does use Te, but i think he uses Ti more. he has a framework for diagnostics in his head, and he generates ideas (Ne) that he analyzes with the framework (Ti).

The generation of ideas comes with the concept of "seeing what is possible"... the big picture. That's Ne. House is not a visionary, he is a problem solver. He doesn't flit around from possibility to possibility, he methodically solves the most likely possibility before moving on to the next - until he is faced with a patient that might die first, but even then, very limited. He doesn't hesitate to get new information - the first logical sign is the moment he steps into action. Ne is big picture - he is about as small picture as he can be and tries to keep it that way.

As far as Ti... Ti orders concepts internally, to make sense of situations. Te drives control and ordering outside of him... as in, directing his minions, finding solutions, making things happen. He doesn't sit back and do medical theory - he is out there, solving problems. That is absolutely Ni vision and Te ordering.

the reason he comes off as so sure of himself is that his Ti has deduced something beyond a certain doubt threshold.

No, it's because he has decided to take action. Even in situations where he isn't sure what to do, he just finds the most likely action and does it. He doesn't open up journals or ask for advice - he doesn't gather information. He processes his own information, seeking the guidance he needs in order to order his world.

His confidence comes when his vision says "this is what I must do to create order"... nothing stands in his way of creating order. He will risk job, limb, life and the patient just to create order.

 

[MacGuffin]

I'd say Ni. As being an irrational function, he solves his problems through internal information then brings them to live through his rational function - Ni-Te.

He does not seek out information except as required (Ne/Se) and then process a decision internally to make sense of it (Ti). He runs through his own index of knowledge (Ni/Si) then goes to make the world match up (Te).



I was just pointing out that there are lots of ways to make generalisations more than making the argument... I posted the sub-traits of introversion (two versions) up above. The argument would be that his general life is introverted - it is only for problem solving that he starts ordering the world (inferior Te - it is subject to Ni first, making his dominant function introverted)... but also that he has a real lack of positive emotions, small social (any social) group, etc. The E/I isn't as clear (hierarchy) as the attitude is, however, but I would say that he has a lot more I tendencies than E.



The generation of ideas comes with the concept of "seeing what is possible"... the big picture. That's Ne. House is not a visionary, he is a problem solver. He doesn't flit around from possibility to possibility, he methodically solves the most likely possibility before moving on to the next - until he is faced with a patient that might die first, but even then, very limited. He doesn't hesitate to get new information - the first logical sign is the moment he steps into action. Ne is big picture - he is about as small picture as he can be and tries to keep it that way.

As far as Ti... Ti orders concepts internally, to make sense of situations. Te drives control and ordering outside of him... as in, directing his minions, finding solutions, making things happen. He doesn't sit back and do medical theory - he is out there, solving problems. That is absolutely Ni vision and Te ordering.



No, it's because he has decided to take action. Even in situations where he isn't sure what to do, he just finds the most likely action and does it. He doesn't open up journals or ask for advice - he doesn't gather information. He processes his own information, seeking the guidance he needs in order to order his world.

His confidence comes when his vision says "this is what I must do to create order"... nothing stands in his way of creating order. He will risk job, limb, life and the patient just to create order.

I like a lot of this. However,

House is obviously an introvert; he lives alone; he holds information close to his chest (Ni). He uses Te more than Ti, too; he constantly controls his world and manipulates/orders others and events.

This sucked.

Why does an introvert seek out people like the janitor and airline passengers to jabber at? Why does he need a team to problem solve? How many INTJs are that involved in the lives of their associates, and are they that manipulative?

 

[MacGuffin]

In fact, I just thought of something else:

House doesn't want to live alone. He sabotaged Wilson's attempts to find his own place when they were forced to live together. He was in a relationship (serious enough to assume they lived together), but after his leg went bad he's been in pain and a drug addict.

Still going with misanthropic E.

 

[Magic Poriferan]

Why does an introvert seek out people like the janitor and airline passengers to jabber at? Why does he need a team to problem solve? How many INTJs are that involved in the lives of their associates, and are they that manipulative?

He's Intimate.
Oh, yeah, I just broke out the instinctual stacking.

I always pegged House as an Intimate Eight.
He may be an Introvert, but he's still intimate, so he is obsessive and possessive regarding his close associates.

I'm an Introvert to the bone. I always score like 85% Introvert on my tests.
But I really, really do emotionally obsess over people(I'm a Thinker, too!)
It just so happens that the Instinctual variant test always says I'm Intimate.
I need those bonds with people, whether or not the drive is healthy.
I still hate groups, by the way. I hate giving presentations, or anything like that.
Just like House.

 

[ptgatsby]

Why does an introvert seek out people like the janitor and airline passengers to jabber at? Why does he need a team to problem solve? How many INTJs are that involved in the lives of their associates, and are they that manipulative?

Because he likes hearing himself talk and likes people see how clever he is... that was part of the whole "peacock" point. They shut up when they don't know, but they won't shut up when they want to show off.

He needs a team because otherwise he'd have to do all the work. He said as much in the start of the show, along with needed a cute girl that is likely to work harder (and can get results from men), someone to break in and take the heat off of him...

And... that last question says you don't know enough INTJs. If there was a competition between INTJs and ENTPs on who is involved in others lives, the ENTP won't even be on the field - I'm not sure it would they would be a benchwarmer. Every INTJ I know gets involved in whatever the hell they want - and if they want to show the world they are right, it's time to scream and run. And if they need you to do something, oh yes, they are in your life. And if it amuses them or they think they should? It doesn't matter if you want it or not.

 

[ptgatsby]

In fact, I just thought of something else:

House doesn't want to live alone. He sabotaged Wilson's attempts to find his own place when they were forced to live together. He was in a relationship (serious enough to assume they lived together), but after his leg went bad he's been in pain and a drug addict.

Still going with misanthropic E.

So you are saying that he wanted one person, a "friend" to be closer to him, and he sabotaged it for his own gain... and you want to call this an "E" trait? That's Ni-Te in action (me me me) with very little E going on (small groups = I, not one person to not be alone = E).

As I said from the start, I can understand the argument for ENTJ or xNTJ, but not for ENTP. I think he is an introvert but I can see the split due to writing demands and what not. However, the ENTP bit as a whole makes no sense to me.

 

[MacGuffin]

So you are saying that he wanted one person, a "friend" to be closer to him, and he sabotaged it for his own gain... and you want to call this an "E" trait? That's Ni-Te in action (me me me) with very little E going on (small groups = I, not one person to not be alone = E).

So extraverts all live in group housing like army barracks?

I just think living alone is indicative of nothing.

 

[ptgatsby]

So extraverts all live in group housing like army barracks?

I just think living alone is indicative of nothing.

That's quite a flip - I'm saying him wanting someone at home - a friend, is natural for all people, regardless of I/E. It doesn't indicate anything. How he kept him there and treats him sure isn't Eish, however, and house does come home alone, not out to a pub to drink with others - I think that preference is clear.

 

[MacGuffin]

That's quite a flip - I'm saying him wanting someone at home - a friend, is natural for all people, regardless of I/E. It doesn't indicate anything. How he kept him there and treats him sure isn't Eish, however, and house does come home alone, not out to a pub to drink with others - I think that preference is clear.

Right, and living alone doesn't indicate anything either.

He does go out though, from racetracks to pubs to the hospital cafeteria... but I don't think that indicates anything either.

 

[ptgatsby]

Right, and living alone doesn't indicate anything either.

He does go out though, from racetracks to pubs to the hospital cafeteria... but I don't think that indicates anything either.

Yup, I agree (FWIW, that original comment wasn't part of my argument, just to say that function association is subjective).

I, for example, am a stronger I than most of the population (well, more than 90%, and probably more than 95%)... yet I still have friends, still go out. I just hate being around people. I still work with them at work - both as a project lead (rarely, but it has happened) or as a grunt. Introversion isn't that simple to simply see - the big two are how one deals with strangers and how their emotions are configured.

House is, in this regard, really hard to type because he's screwed up. He has serious bonding issues and insecurities... and of course, he's written to play that up.

The difference I see is that he hates strangers - hates them, hates patients... just hates people. But not his people, as you note - not the people he makes dance. That is, to me, very I - the Es I know can sit down at a table and interact with others... house mounts an attack - all out warfare - on them at the first chance, be it a patient he doesn't want to see or some social thing he has been pushed into.

And house is about as positive as an electron.

 

[INTJMom]

Sure - MBTI;

Initiating - Sociable, Congenial, Introduces people
Expressive - Demonstrative, easier to know, self-revealing
Gregarious - Seek popularity, broad circle, join groups
Active - Interactive, want contact, Listen and speak
Enthusiastic - Lively, Energetic, seek spotlight.

FFM;

Enthusiasm - Shows a lot of positive feelings
Sociability - Prefers working with others
Energy Mode - Prefers to be physically active
Taking Charge - Enjoys responsibility of leading others
Trust of Others - Readily trusts others
Tact - Carefully selects the right words

...

Thank you.

I don't understand the tact thing.
I thought that was an F or T indicator: Ts tend to be blunt, Fs tend to be diplomatic.
Is that not true?