User Tag List

123 Last

Results 1 to 10 of 35

Thread: The Godfather

  1. #1
    Senior Member evilrobot's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2009
    MBTI
    nite
    Enneagram
    5w4
    Socionics
    ILI
    Posts
    182

    Default The Godfather

    Vito Corleone ENTJ
    Michael INTJ
    Sonny ESTP
    Fredo ESFP
    X___________________________________

    If things are not what they seem, and we are forever reminded that this is the case—then it must also be observed that enough of us ignore this truth to keep the world from collapsing. –Thomas Ligotti, The Mystics of Muelenberg

  2. #2
    Freshman Member simulatedworld's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2008
    MBTI
    ENTP
    Enneagram
    7w6 sx/so
    Socionics
    ILE
    Posts
    5,554

    Default

    Swap Vito and Michael. Vito's F seems stronger--he really cared about bringing the five families together for peace, to end the violence, despite the traumatic attempt on his life. I could potentially even see as Vito as INFJ, but that might be a stretch.

    Michael, on the other hand, is ruthless--doesn't give a shit about his father's ideals and is interested only in controlling and dominating. I see Michael as the quintessential ENTJ.

    Also I see Fredo as more of an ISFP, but I guess that's debatable.
    If you could be anything you want, I bet you'd be disappointed--am I right?

  3. #3
    Geolectric teslashock's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2009
    MBTI
    ENTP
    Enneagram
    7w6
    Posts
    1,690

    Default

    imho...

    Vito ENFJ
    Michael ENTJ
    Sonny ESTP
    Fredo ESFP
    Connie ISFP
    Tom ISTJ
    Kay INFP

  4. #4
    Senior Member evilrobot's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2009
    MBTI
    nite
    Enneagram
    5w4
    Socionics
    ILI
    Posts
    182

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by simulatedworld View Post
    Swap Vito and Michael. Vito's F seems stronger--he really cared about bringing the five families together for peace, to end the violence, despite the traumatic attempt on his life. I could potentially even see as Vito as INFJ, but that might be a stretch.

    Michael, on the other hand, is ruthless--doesn't give a shit about his father's ideals and is interested only in controlling and dominating. I see Michael as the quintessential ENTJ.
    Vito was definitely more E than Michael. ENFJ, perhaps, but not INFJ. Yet he was a gangster who made ruthless “T” decisions all the time, and was never an idealist. Still, he was family man who wanted peace and stability in the gangster realm, and had a way with people. A level-headed ENTJ with strong Fe.

    Michael, on the other hand, started out as an idealist who wanted no part in the family business. He was a visionary and behind-the-scenes mastermind, was never comfortable in social settings and kept his own counsel. Even after he took over, his long range plan was to make the family business legit, though he had a very ruthless, end justififies the means way of going about it. INTJ with strong tertiary Fi.
    X___________________________________

    If things are not what they seem, and we are forever reminded that this is the case—then it must also be observed that enough of us ignore this truth to keep the world from collapsing. –Thomas Ligotti, The Mystics of Muelenberg

  5. #5
    Freshman Member simulatedworld's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2008
    MBTI
    ENTP
    Enneagram
    7w6 sx/so
    Socionics
    ILE
    Posts
    5,554

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by evilrobot View Post
    Vito was definitely more E than Michael. ENFJ, perhaps, but not INFJ. Yet he was a gangster who made ruthless “T” decisions all the time, and was never an idealist. Still, he was family man who wanted peace and stability in the gangster realm, and had a way with people. A level-headed ENTJ with strong Fe.
    ENTJ is not an Fe type. Even in 8-function interpretations of typology, Fe is a weak background process for ENTJ at best. ENTJs use Fi and, depending on whose interpretation you believe, either less Fe than Fi or no Fe at all.

    Quote Originally Posted by evilrobot View Post
    Michael, on the other hand, started out as an idealist who wanted no part in the family business. He was a visionary and behind-the-scenes mastermind, was never comfortable in social settings and kept his own counsel. Even after he took over, his long range plan was to make the family business legit, though he had a very ruthless, end justififies the means way of going about it. INTJ with strong tertiary Fi.
    What was so idealistic about him? He certainly wasn't opposed to having a violent profession--if you recall the first film, he was in the military before getting involved with the family business.

    He never really intended to make the family legitimate; he just wanted Kate to think that because she disapproved of his illicit lifestyle. He lied to her a lot in order to maintain control.

    He responds to threats and problems with classic Te+Se rage. Obviously both NTJ types can do this, but I don't think INTJs tend to show as much overt anger as Michael does on numerous occasions.

    And what makes you think he was uncomfortable in social situations? I don't recall any examples of that.
    If you could be anything you want, I bet you'd be disappointed--am I right?

  6. #6
    Senior Member
    Join Date
    Oct 2009
    Posts
    976

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by evilrobot View Post
    Vito Corleone ENTJ
    Michael INTJ
    Sonny ESTP
    Fredo ESFP
    I don't argue fictional characters, generally anyway, but as to the actors--

    Marlon Brando: INFP
    Al Pacino: INFP
    James Caan: ESFP
    John Cazale: ENFP
    Robert Duvall: SFP (I suspect ESFP but not certain)

    Robert De Niro, another INFP, later played young Vito...

    Francis Ford Coppola is an ENFP, and along with Martin Scorsese, another ENFP, probably the most actor-friendly director of that time period.

  7. #7
    Senior Member evilrobot's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2009
    MBTI
    nite
    Enneagram
    5w4
    Socionics
    ILI
    Posts
    182

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by simulatedworld View Post
    ENTJ is not an Fe type. Even in 8-function interpretations of typology, Fe is a weak background process for ENTJ at best. ENTJs use Fi and, depending on whose interpretation you believe, either less Fe than Fi or no Fe at all.



    What was so idealistic about him? He certainly wasn't opposed to having a violent profession--if you recall the first film, he was in the military before getting involved with the family business.

    He never really intended to make the family legitimate; he just wanted Kate to think that because she disapproved of his illicit lifestyle. He lied to her a lot in order to maintain control.

    He responds to threats and problems with classic Te+Se rage. Obviously both NTJ types can do this, but I don't think INTJs tend to show as much overt anger as Michael does on numerous occasions.

    And what makes you think he was uncomfortable in social situations? I don't recall any examples of that.
    Anyone can have strong usage of a function outside the textbook order. The fact is, Vito had good use of both Te and Fe and he was an extravert. You’re saying he’s an INFJ, how do you see him as being Ni dominant?

    Michael not an idealist? He was strongly opposed to the family business, unlike his brothers who didn’t think twice about it. He enlisted in the military against his father’s wishes (who had the connections to get him out of being drafted) because he believed in the war. This may all be more evident in the book, but I thought it was pretty clear in the film as well that he was drawn as a high-minded idealist (but an NT kind of idealist, not an NF), as opposed to his father, who was pragmatic and mainly cared about looking after his own people.

    Michael did want to make the family business legit, that never changed (I’m pretty sure that was also indicated in the 3rd movie, but I haven’t seen that in ages), but he realized it would take much longer than he thought and that he could not avoid making ruthless choices; he had to accept that or be wiped out. At the end of the day, he was a T who did what had to be done. And trust me, INTJs can lose their temper as much as ENTJs. Michael's pattern was one of suppressed rage that errupted when he was under pressure, and he was usually under quite a bit of pressure.
    X___________________________________

    If things are not what they seem, and we are forever reminded that this is the case—then it must also be observed that enough of us ignore this truth to keep the world from collapsing. –Thomas Ligotti, The Mystics of Muelenberg

  8. #8
    Freshman Member simulatedworld's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2008
    MBTI
    ENTP
    Enneagram
    7w6 sx/so
    Socionics
    ILE
    Posts
    5,554

    Default

    I don't see how Fe and Te can occupy the same person, but that's beside the point. (This gets into functions as value systems vs. functions as singular actions, but you can wall post or PM me if you care to discuss that.) If his Fe was higher than his Fi he would, by definition, not be an ENTJ.

    As for Michael I can see INTJ as a plausible alternative, but think ENTJ fits marginally better. Note that many fictional characters have poorly defined I/E lines.

    On another note--

    I think Tom is ISFJ, not ISTJ. Nobody else besides tesla seems to have commented on him.
    If you could be anything you want, I bet you'd be disappointed--am I right?

  9. #9
    Senior Member evilrobot's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2009
    MBTI
    nite
    Enneagram
    5w4
    Socionics
    ILI
    Posts
    182

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by simulatedworld View Post
    I don't see how Fe and Te can occupy the same person, but that's beside the point. (This gets into functions as value systems vs. functions as singular actions, but you can wall post or PM me if you care to discuss that.) If his Fe was higher than his Fi he would, by definition, not be an ENTJ.

    On another note--

    I think Tom is ISFJ, not ISTJ. Nobody else besides tesla seems to have commented on him.
    A lot of EJs use both extraverted judging functions well (Te and Fe). Plus Fi is the inferior function of ENTJ, so I’m not sure where you get that ENTJs use Fi more than Fe.

    I also lean toward ISFJ for Tom, but I’m not positive.
    X___________________________________

    If things are not what they seem, and we are forever reminded that this is the case—then it must also be observed that enough of us ignore this truth to keep the world from collapsing. –Thomas Ligotti, The Mystics of Muelenberg

  10. #10
    Freshman Member simulatedworld's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2008
    MBTI
    ENTP
    Enneagram
    7w6 sx/so
    Socionics
    ILE
    Posts
    5,554

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by evilrobot View Post
    A lot of EJs use both extraverted functions well (Te and Fe). Plus Fi is the inferior function of ENTJ, so I’m not sure where you get that ENTJs use Fi more than Fe.

    I also lean toward ISFJ for Tom, but I’m not positive.
    I got it from Psychological Types, where Jung says that using the four non-preferred functions, if possible at all (which he is uncertain of), would require "tremendous expenditure of energy."

    In Jung's functional theory, each type prefers one form of each of the four functions N, S, T and F. So being an NTJ means that one prefers Ni over Ne, Se over Si, Te over Ti and Fi over Fe. He does not ever explicitly say that we can or cannot use the four other functions, but he does make it clear that the four standard ones are the preferred forms--ergo, ENTJ prefers Fi to Fe (if he even uses Fe at all.)

    Your conception of "using functions" is inconsistent with Jung's definition of what a function actually is. It doesn't matter what you did; it only matters why you did it. You're not actually "using Fe" unless you did something because you believe in Fe's values purely for their own sake. Even if you did something that "looked Fe" on the surface, if you did it to appease a more important Te value, then Te is the real function at work. (e.g., "I should give an appearance of respecting other people's cultural values because that's the most effective way to get what I want" is Te, even though it involves doing something that appears Fe on the surface.)

    When you say that EJs are often "good at both Te and Fe" you seem to be associating Te and Fe with particular tasks rather than underlying value systems. Correct me if I'm wrong, here, but your reasoning seems to be that if someone is good at logically organizing outer world tasks to get stuff done and also good at harmonizing with group-oriented values, he must be using both Te and Fe, but this is a mistake based on the misconception that functions are equated with singular actions.

    They are not. Functions are value systems that make up the building blocks of one's worldview. If we want to understand Vito's functional makeup, we need to look for the ultimate root motivation for his behavior, in the most fundamental components of his value system--not simply label surface actions as "using" this or that function.
    If you could be anything you want, I bet you'd be disappointed--am I right?

Similar Threads

  1. The Banned and The Damned
    By Haight in forum Official Decrees
    Replies: 331
    Last Post: 11-30-2017, 07:12 PM
  2. The What Godfather Character Are You Test
    By Gentleman Jack in forum Online Personality Tests
    Replies: 9
    Last Post: 04-07-2017, 12:03 PM
  3. The Madmin Blog
    By Haight in forum Official Decrees
    Replies: 51
    Last Post: 01-19-2013, 05:40 AM
  4. Replies: 42
    Last Post: 09-08-2011, 08:09 AM
  5. Just Watched The Godfather Trilogy For the First Time (Spoilers)
    By LunarMoon in forum Arts & Entertainment
    Replies: 7
    Last Post: 12-14-2010, 12:48 AM

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
Single Sign On provided by vBSSO