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Thread: The Godfather

  1. #31
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    Are we talking about the movie or the novel? The movie is nothing compared to the novel. Read the novel and it's one of those novels that you'll never look at life or people the same again.

    In the novel, Mike does want the family to slowly become legit, he just has to move through all the dark stuff before hand, but he can't see what he is becoming and that it just won't be possible. The self-deception is part of what makes his transformation so powerful.

    Kay in the novel: INFJ. In the movie, she's a totally different character more like ENFP. The Mike and Kay in the novel would never reach the point where Mike slaps her. Kay sees what he is and accepts it in the end. She sees his self deception and through her, the reader does as well.

  2. #32
    Freshman Member simulatedworld's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by mysterio View Post
    youre even more conceited than I am dude
    evilrobot’s pionts were basic stuff to anyone who’s read jung’s types and mbti books like they claim: related but different systems Jung didn’t use the same 4 letter preferences and mbti uses modified definitions of jungian functions. you said he should’ve indicated which one he was using to type charactgers are you expecting everyone to do that on these threads? pretty fucking hard to take that seriously
    I'd love to hear about why my points were inconsistent. I do enjoy a good trolling from time to time, but in this case I was dead serious. Most people really do erroneously associate functions with singular actions, when in reality they're building blocks of value systems.

    I'm not splitting hairs--read my post about the F and T functions again. There's some very good content in there; I promise.

    Quote Originally Posted by mysterio View Post
    and let me get this straight, you think forum epxerience = knowledge ?? oookay i guess i don't know too much since i don't have all your time to waste on forums
    No, not necessarily; I just think evilrobot probably hasn't spent very much time studying this.

    I dunno who you are or what your background on this is, but if you think people are running around using both Te and Fe routinely then you probably haven't read Psychological Types, or at least didn't understand it. Jung defined each set of functions (Ji, Je, Pi, Pe) as opposing forces that contradict each other's worldviews. Being good at something that most Te users are good at doesn't mean one is actually a Te user.

    And by the way, it's typologycentral, not MBTI central, so if you start a thread and you want responses to be solely in MBTI terms with no input from any other typology systems (or even from the original source material that all of them were based on, Jung) you should probably specify.

    Most threads arguing about types go into Jungian functional theory, if you hadn't noticed.
    If you could be anything you want, I bet you'd be disappointed--am I right?

  3. #33
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    Having read the book and seen the movie, I would say that Micheal starts out as a ISFP with a strong will to quietly do his own thing and is easy going about life, he's not looking for conflicts. Then due to the things that happen to his family and the response demanded from him, he transforms into a shadow version of ENTJ.

    At its core, it is a story about a powerful and extreme transformation against a character's will. He becomes what he always swore he would not.

    Vito has a similar dramatic transformation. One of the lines in the book when he is planning to kill Fanucci is that he had never before thought so clearly and calmly. It seems to come to him as though he were thinking unconsciously. His friends too are awed by the change in him. His wife for the first time is afraid of him.

  4. #34
    Senior Member evilrobot's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by simulatedworld View Post
    No, not necessarily; I just think evilrobot probably hasn't spent very much time studying this.

    if you think people are running around using both Te and Fe routinely then you probably haven't read Psychological Types, or at least didn't understand it. Jung defined each set of functions (Ji, Je, Pi, Pe) as opposing forces that contradict each other's worldviews. Being good at something that most Te users are good at doesn't mean one is actually a Te user.
    Anyone who wants to call me the biggest idiot on this forum for still responding to this guy is free to do so. I won’t challenge it. This is what typical ENTPs do, keep egging you and on and on; it’s what they thrive on. Like Mysterio said, they’re the button pushers of the mbti.

    Again, simulatedworld, instead of taking your cheap shots at me by implying I’ve never read Jung or mbti books I challenge you to adress my points without altering them. For instance, that Te and Fe values aren’t mutually exlusive in everyone. Does this fit actual people? And no, I’m not demanding hard empirical proof like you keep repeating to distort my meaning. You want to have it both ways, talking about Jung’s typology theory like it’s hard science that everyone fits into perfectly, then saying it’s all just theory when someone challenges your dogmatic assertions.

    My point is the only way to test the validity of typology theories is on people. If in this case certain EJs say they can identify with being fairly balanced in Te and Fe, it proves what I was positing has some validity and Jung’s original theory was possibly incorrect along those lines (at least for some people).
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  5. #35
    Freshman Member simulatedworld's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by evilrobot View Post
    My point is the only way to test the validity of typology theories is on people. If in this case certain EJs say they can identify with being fairly balanced in Te and Fe, it proves what I was positing has some validity and Jung’s original theory was possibly incorrect along those lines (at least for some people).
    This is a question of definition. I've tried to explain but you just respond with stereotypical INTJ insistence that I'm "splitting hairs" because you don't seem to understand the level of specificity I'm using. (This is a pretty typical Te criticism of Ti-oriented theory.) You want breadth of applicability (Te) so you think my focus on depth of precision (Ti) is pointless and irrelevant.

    One more time, though:

    In Jung's terms, Te+Fi is a worldview that looks inwardly for ethics and outwardly for logic. The idea that real ethics could come from an external source is nonsensical to Fi, and the idea that there could be some subjective internal definition of logic is nonsensical to Te.

    As I've tried to explain, "using Fe" doesn't mean "doing things that FJs are good at", it means deriving your ethical views from an external standard of some sort. You're defining functions by the action performed instead of the value system motivating it, which is not what Jung meant when he defined these terms.

    I fully agree that a Te user can learn many of the skills that Fe users are good at, but that's not what using Fe is. If he's not making ethical decisions according to an external standard, he is not using extroverted Feeling.

    Vito Corleone was surely good at many skills that TJs are usually good at as well as many skills that FJs are usually good at, but he can't be both Te and Fe because these terms represent value systems that fundamentally contradict the basis of each other's conceptions of logic and ethics.
    If you could be anything you want, I bet you'd be disappointed--am I right?

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