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Thread: The Godfather

  1. #21
    Freshman Member simulatedworld's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Oedipa_Maas View Post
    With Michael, you have to take into consideration the effect Apollonia's death ultimately played in what he would become.

    He's definitely an NTJ, even before Sicily. Obviously calculated, calm, even dispassionate - The way he handles himself at the hospital (even surprises himself), it's his decision to kill Sollozzo and McCluskey... Hell, even the way he handles himself with Apollonia's father. Still, he was nothing like what he became after Sicily.

    When she was murdered, he seemed completely hollowed by it. Everything was business from that point.
    I think it prompted to him to bury whatever Fi he had going for him very deeply into his subconscious--"How can I avoid being hurt this badly again? By disallowing emotional response."
    If you could be anything you want, I bet you'd be disappointed--am I right?

  2. #22
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    Quote Originally Posted by Oedipa_Maas View Post
    With Michael, you have to take into consideration the effect Apollonia's death ultimately played in what he would become.

    He's definitely an NTJ, even before Sicily. Obviously calculated, calm, even dispassionate - The way he handles himself at the hospital (even surprises himself), it's his decision to kill Sollozzo and McCluskey... Hell, even the way he handles himself with Apollonia's father. Still, he was nothing like what he became after Sicily.

    When she was murdered, he seemed completely hollowed by it. Everything was business from that point.
    Yes. Not going to argue the types of fictional characters, but the way Al played Michael, that quiet intensity and iciness, it's very hard for me to perceive him as anything other than an INTJ. Here with ENFP Diane Keaton:

    YouTube - Michael Slaps Kay. The Godfather 2

    And all credit to him that he could create an equally credible ESTP badass in the film SCARFACE...

  3. #23
    Senior Member evilrobot's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by simulatedworld View Post


    That's interesting; I don't see anything in the OP signifying that you only wanted MBTI analysis. If you didn't want to discuss Jungian functions, I find it odd that you used them freely in your responses to other posts here. If you stick strictly to MBTI, Te, Ti, etc. are meaningless terms because MBTI only deals with E, I, N, S, F, T, P and J as separate and distinct concepts. There's no sub-classification of S, N, T or F.

    You've got it backwards. The MBTI types were extrapolated from Jung's functions, not the other way around. MBTI doesn't actually discuss directional functions at all--it doesn't differentiate between Fe and Fi; both are just condensed into "F." Therefore, if you're discussing Fe, Fi, Te, etc., you are using Jungian terms.


    Nobody can prove anybody wrong about the types of anyone, so I don't understand why you keep asking for that. Typology, since it is not testable or empirically verifiable, operates on inductive reasoning--the best you can do is make a "strong" argument that x person is y type; you cannot evaluate subjective analysis in terms of deductive reasoning. There is no such thing as a truly "correct" or "incorrect" typing, only "strong" or "weak" arguments for types (which are ultimately subjective anyway.)

    Aside from that, though, I think you've missed my point about Fe vs. Te. Having strong family values doesn't necessarily indicate Fe use; having a conception of morality based on an external standard does.

    So one could have strong family values based on Fe--if his idea of ethics is based on an external standard and that external standard says that family values are important.

    Or one could have strong family values based on Fi, if his idea of ethics is personal and internal, and he feels it's important to support his family structure.

    Or one could have strong family values based on Te, if his idea of logic comes from an external standard and he sees that keeping a family together is an objectively effective method of reaching whatever goals he has.

    Or one could have strong family values based on Ti, if his idea of logic is personal and internal and he believes that it's logically consistent to support his family structure.

    etc., etc...you're still defining functions according to displayed behavior, but functions don't do that. That's what MBTI's basic four-dichotomy sliding scale system is for. Observing and categorizing obvious surface behaviors--the what, not the why.

    Functions are more difficult because they describe fundamental components of value systems--if we say someone uses Fe, all we're saying is that he bases his concept of ethics on some external standard. This may (and frequently does) result in "strong family values", but some Fe users do not have strong family values. The defining characteristic of Fe is that it motivates people to define morality according to an objective external standard--the why, not the what.

    If you're not interested in discussing functional value systems/would prefer to discuss only MBTI, that's fine, but it does make it confusing when you use terms like Te and Fe in your analysis. MBTI doesn't encompass these terms at all.
    Many of your points, including your little lecture on function use, are ridiculous. Your head is either pretty far up a certain orifice where the sun don’t shine, amigo, or you’re being deliberately obtuse and splitting hairs to bait me. Either way, I’m done wasting my time with this discussion. You sort of remind me of another ENTP here, who happens to be on my friend’s list. If he’s read this thread, he’s no doubt laughing his ass off at me for being a chump and indulging you as much as I have.
    X___________________________________

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  4. #24
    Freshman Member simulatedworld's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by evilrobot View Post
    Many of your points, including your little lecture on function use, are ridiculous. Your head is either pretty far up a certain orifice where the sun don’t shine, amigo, or you’re being deliberately obtuse and splitting hairs to bait me. Either way, I’m done wasting my time with this discussion. You sort of remind me of another ENTP here, who happens to be on my friend’s list. If he’s read this thread, he’s no doubt laughing his ass off at me for being a chump and indulging you as much as I have.


    Or, of course, another possibility: that this topic is a little more complex than you think, and you don't really understand its nuances yet.

    But don't listen to me; I've only read all the original source material and spent 3,900 posts discussing it.
    If you could be anything you want, I bet you'd be disappointed--am I right?

  5. #25
    Senior Member evilrobot's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by simulatedworld View Post


    Or, of course, another possibility: that this topic is a little more complex than you think, and you don't really understand its nuances yet.

    But don't listen to me; I've only read all the original source material and spent 3,900 posts discussing it.
    I bet it's tough being a misunterstood genius.
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    If things are not what they seem, and we are forever reminded that this is the case—then it must also be observed that enough of us ignore this truth to keep the world from collapsing. –Thomas Ligotti, The Mystics of Muelenberg

  6. #26
    Freshman Member simulatedworld's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by evilrobot View Post
    I bet it's tough being a misunterstood genius.
    Actually I'm pretty well understood by most people who've bothered to put any time into studying this topic.

    I'm not sure "misunterstood" [sic] is the right term here, given that you've made no attempt to understand in the first place. I'm sure with your two months of forum experience and zero background on the source material in question, though, you've put in all the effort necessary.
    If you could be anything you want, I bet you'd be disappointed--am I right?

  7. #27
    Senior Member evilrobot's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by simulatedworld View Post
    . I'm sure with your two months of forum experience and zero background on the source material in question, though, you've put in all the effort necessary.
    I’m awed by your forum experience.
    X___________________________________

    If things are not what they seem, and we are forever reminded that this is the case—then it must also be observed that enough of us ignore this truth to keep the world from collapsing. –Thomas Ligotti, The Mystics of Muelenberg

  8. #28
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    Quote Originally Posted by evilrobot View Post
    Many of your points, including your little lecture on function use, are ridiculous. Your head is either pretty far up a certain orifice where the sun don’t shine, amigo, or you’re being deliberately obtuse and splitting hairs to bait me. Either way, I’m done wasting my time with this discussion. You sort of remind me of another ENTP here, who happens to be on my friend’s list. If he’s read this thread, he’s no doubt laughing his ass off at me for being a chump and indulging you as much as I have.

    yeah it was fairly amusing you Js are easy targets because you’re too serious you need to loosen up the panties or put on a bigger size.

    But don’t worry dude you kicked that poser’s ass and he knows it – or least you were more right. ENTPs are quicksilver in these debates, best at keeping people off balance and flowing with the changing process. his arguments are inconsistant and he contradicts himself but he “wins” because no one else here will notice it. his replies are what ENTPs resort to because we hate losing arguments we distort the other guy’s points, split hairs and spin convoluted bullshit to turn the tables. and if this is pointed out we condescendingly imply the other person’s not sophisticated enough to understand our advanced knowledge / we also like pushing buttons to get a reaction = free entertainment. Ten to one if I checked stimulated troll’s posts id find a lot of button pushing. but no one calls you on being a forum troll if you’re one of the gang. only outsiders get called trolls for trolling.

    Quote Originally Posted by evilrobot View Post
    Vito A level-headed ENTJ with strong Fe.
    Michael, INTJ
    Plausible but vito could also be ENFJ w/ good Te.


    Quote Originally Posted by simulatedworld View Post
    Actually I'm pretty well understood by most people who've bothered to put any time into studying this topic.

    I'm not sure "misunterstood" [sic] is the right term here, given that you've made no attempt to understand in the first place. I'm sure with your two months of forum experience and zero background on the source material in question, though, you've put in all the effort necessary.
    youre even more conceited than I am dude
    evilrobot’s pionts were basic stuff to anyone who’s read jung’s types and mbti books like they claim: related but different systems Jung didn’t use the same 4 letter preferences and mbti uses modified definitions of jungian functions. you said he should’ve indicated which one he was using to type charactgers are you expecting everyone to do that on these threads? pretty fucking hard to take that seriously

    and let me get this straight, you think forum epxerience = knowledge ?? oookay i guess i don't know too much since i don't have all your time to waste on forums
    i believe that i am in hell, therefore i am there.
    –arthur rimbaud

  9. #29
    Senior Member NewEra's Avatar
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    I think Don Vito Corleone was INTJ.

  10. #30
    Senior Member evilrobot's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by mysterio View Post
    you’re too serious you need to loosen up the panties or put on a bigger size.
    This is getting off topic, but how did you know I wear panties?
    X___________________________________

    If things are not what they seem, and we are forever reminded that this is the case—then it must also be observed that enough of us ignore this truth to keep the world from collapsing. –Thomas Ligotti, The Mystics of Muelenberg

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