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Thread: Steven J Gould

  1. #31
    Tenured roisterer SolitaryWalker's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Blackwater View Post
    bluewings argument runs like this:

    because earlier incantations of a certain science were wrong, all later incantations of that same science must also be wrong
    No, if a certain 'science' has the same structure as one that has been refuted multiple times before, there is a good reason to suspect that it is refutable also.

    Quote Originally Posted by Blackwater View Post
    because astrology was wrong, mbti must also be wrong

    nice going, bw
    MBTI is wrong, but not for the same reason as astrology is as the two studies don't have the same essence. Astrology defines a person on the basis of his birthday, MBTI on the basis of personality traits that he sometimes shows. Yet measuring intelligence in accordance to skull measuring or the shape of one's ears does have the same structure: intelligence correlates highly to a certain physical feature of a person's immediately observable body. Since all other such arguments were unsuccessful, there is no good reason to believe that this one will be. Besides, why would one even think that a person's natural intelligence is connected to the shape of his ears? Is having long ears in any way helpful to solving complex problems? Why not conjecture that people who have the longest or symmetrically long eye-lashes are the best athletes and call that serious science?
    "Do not argue with an idiot. They drag you down to their level and beat you with experience." -- Mark Twain

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  2. #32
    Tenured roisterer SolitaryWalker's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by the state i am in View Post
    oh no bluewing, tell it like it is!

    your analogy makes little sense, and your definitions ("vibes?") make little sense and have no relevance to what i said..
    I don't think that's true. A vibe is a feeling, or that is at least its conventional definition, it is very relevant to what you said.

    Quote Originally Posted by the state i am in View Post
    i perceive similarities in gestures to my concept of Fe usage..your conclusions are poor in almost all accounts...you find a premise that you try to bloat to create a conclusion that is exaggerated and irrelevant. .[/.
    I am incapable of understanding of what 'Fe usage' is as on this forum its too vaguely and inconsistently defined, as it is on a typical MBTI website. Perceiving similarities is not the same thing as merely 'sensing vibes' or using feelings to arrive at conclusions about people. My conclusion wasn't exaggerated, it was a response to your claim that you know a person's type on the basis of a vibe or a feeling. So, I reduced that notion to an absurdity by showing that a feeling can lead a person to believe in a host of preposterous notions.

    Quote Originally Posted by the state i am in View Post
    this is Ni at work in conjunction with my own Fe. .

    No idea what you mean.


    Quote Originally Posted by the state i am in View Post
    you find a premise that you try to bloat to create a conclusion that is exaggerated and irrelevant. it makes you look in between unintelligent and crazy. and it is extremely ineffective in persuading others (which you so desperately hope to do) unless your audience is comprised of people who are going to be gentle and kind bc they are predominant F types anyway and don't want to make you feel badly about yourself. or you take up the ludicrous cause of attacking the usage of myers briggs on a myers briggs site and acting like an advocate for the crotchety republican contingency who follow your views (oh look how disenfranchised we are with this, the whole world is going to hell and a handbasket, etc)..

    Very eloquent thank you. Have you ever considered a carrier in poetry or fiction writing?

    Quote Originally Posted by the state i am in View Post
    maybe you should take up a career in writing or get your masters in rush limbaughism.
    I earn my living by writing today; don't know if I want to get a Master's degree however: its very expensive, has low instrumental value at the job market and won't teach me a great deal that I can't learn on my own.
    Last edited by SolitaryWalker; 01-24-2010 at 11:37 AM.
    "Do not argue with an idiot. They drag you down to their level and beat you with experience." -- Mark Twain

    “No man but a blockhead ever wrote, except for money.”---Samuel Johnson

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  3. #33
    Senior Member Blackwater's Avatar
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    No, if a certain 'science' has the same structure as one that has been refuted multiple times before, there is a good reason to suspect that it is refutable also.
    that's right. before flight, many inventors tried to make various types of aircraft. the general structure was the same: conquer the skies. all failed. therefore, we should be suspicious of mordern airlines as well

    Yet measuring intelligence in accordance to skull measuring or the shape of one's ears does have the same structure
    no because skull shape is mostly a genotypical phenomenon whereas symmetry is a result of both genotype and phenotype.

    Besides, why would one even think that a person's natural intelligence is connected to the shape of his ears?
    the reasoning is actually quite simple: intelligence is a biological function and thus it follows that people have the requisite good genes to start with and who have had an unbrigning rife with solid nutrition and an absense of disease and parasites will develop a wholesome expression of these genes _irregardless_ of exposure to art and philosophy. (general reading and other mental tasks will stimulate mental development, not determine it. at it does not have to be philosophical in the least. doctors and fighter pilots have high intelligence yet are not philosophical)
    best collection of philosopher typings online

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  4. #34
    Tenured roisterer SolitaryWalker's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Blackwater View Post
    that's right. before flight, many inventors tried to make various types of aircraft. the general structure was the same: conquer the skies. all failed. therefore, we should be suspicious of mordern airlines as well )
    We should have been until one successful instance of an aircraft has become known. So, lets be suspicious of all intelligence theories that link a certain bodily feature with cleverness potential until we find some reason to regard at least one of theories as plausible.



    Quote Originally Posted by Blackwater View Post
    no because skull shape is mostly a genotypical phenomenon whereas symmetry is a result of both genotype and phenotype.)
    Why should we think that something that is resultant of both genotype and phenotype has anything to do with cleverness? I've read a short wikipedia article on phenotype and there it has been defined as a trait thats resultant of both genes and environment. Something that is a phenotype and a genotype is a redundant proposition as a phenotype by definition includes a genotypical element. Symmetry is a phenotype, that is its a result of a person's experiences with the environment to some degree? What on earth does all of this have to do with the claim that intelligence is largely innate, and that a person's symmetry of ears suggests that he is innately intelligent. This seems to be contradicting what you've mainted earlier, that no life experience can make you grow symmetrical ears therefore since symmetrical ears correspond to intelligence, you can't acquire it by experience as you can't acquire symmetrical ears by experience. Now you're saying symmetrical ears are a phenotype, which actually weakens your claim that intelligence is innate. If it is the case that when you grow symmetrical ears you get smarter and its possible for you to grow symmetrical ears, its also possible to become smarter, that of course is if we accept the ridiculous claim that when you become smart your ears are likely to get symmetrical.


    Quote Originally Posted by Blackwater View Post
    the reasoning is actually quite simple: intelligence is a biological function and thus it follows that people have the requisite good genes to start with and who have had an unbrigning rife with solid nutrition and an absense of disease and parasites will develop a wholesome expression of these genes _irregardless_ of exposure to art and philosophy. (general reading and other mental tasks will stimulate mental development, not determine it. at it does not have to be philosophical in the least. doctors and fighter pilots have high intelligence yet are not philosophical)
    Intelligence training need not be philosophical or artistic, there are many ways for a person to sharpen his abstract problem solving skills. How does this give us any reason to believe that the person with the 'good genes' has symmetrical ears?
    "Do not argue with an idiot. They drag you down to their level and beat you with experience." -- Mark Twain

    “No man but a blockhead ever wrote, except for money.”---Samuel Johnson

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  5. #35
    Senior Member Blackwater's Avatar
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    So, lets be suspicious of all intelligence theories that link a certain bodily feature with cleverness potential until we find some reason to regard at least one of theories as plausible.
    we already have one. a person who a high iq is (statistically speaking) a person in whom all biological systems are functioning to an above average standard. this also means developing a symmetrical physique



    i have no idea what you just said in the middle block of text

    but leys say you have a propensity for growing 80% symmetrical ears. after recieving a blow to the head, you now have a 70% chance. symmetry is like icing on the cake: something the body develops if everything else is functioning properly. intelligence is also one of those things but probably lower on the scale than symmetry. thus people will symmetrical ears will on average have a higher iq than the rest of the population.

    popularly speaking, lets say you have genes that could develop your iq to maximally 180

    things that will detract from that development, such as poor nutrition and blows to the head, will also detract from symmetry
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  6. #36
    Tenured roisterer SolitaryWalker's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Blackwater View Post
    we already have one.
    Where? Who authored the study? What is its title? Where was it published?


    Quote Originally Posted by Blackwater View Post
    a person who a high iq is (statistically speaking) a person in whom all biological systems are functioning to an above average standard. this also means developing a symmetrical physique
    Why is there a connection between a symmetrical physique and a person's high cognitive functioning? Furthermore, why should we assume that if person functions well biologically, he will function well cognitively? History has documented many instances of geniuses with a highly defective physical predispositions. Kierkegaard and Nietzsche are distinct cases in point.

    In short, I see no reason to believe that if person is symmetrical, he functions in a biologically sound way. I also see no reason to believe that there is an underlying essence within a person that causes him to function well in all ways, as it is perfectly conceivable for person to function well in one way and not the other.


    Quote Originally Posted by Blackwater View Post
    a person who a high iq is (statistically speaking) a person in whom all biological systems are functioning to an above average standard
    Physical health problems and internal functioning deficiences are common among intellectuals.


    i have no idea what you just said in the middle block of text





    Quote Originally Posted by Blackwater View Post
    things that will detract from that development, such as poor nutrition and blows to the head, will also detract from symmetry
    Does this mean that a mad scientist rewires my brain and turns me into an idiot, my ears will become less symmetrical? Why would that be the case? What about a peson who becomes asymmetrical because of a physical accident such as losing an ear, would this also detract from his intelligence?
    "Do not argue with an idiot. They drag you down to their level and beat you with experience." -- Mark Twain

    “No man but a blockhead ever wrote, except for money.”---Samuel Johnson

    My blog: www.randommeanderings123.blogspot.com/

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